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RONB-ESQ
RONB-ESQ, Lawyer
Category: Family Law
Satisfied Customers: 357
Experience:  Right of Way Manager at Access Midstream Partners, LP
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How do holidays work. My grand kids are with an aunt to my

Customer Question

How do holidays work for grandparents. My grand kids are with an aunt to my oldest grandson. We have joint custody but get see them on 1, 3 & 5 of the month. Parents are not allowed to visit with kids what so ever. Would my holidays fall as the mother since their mother is my daughter?
Submitted: 11 months ago.
Category: Family Law
Expert:  RONB-ESQ replied 11 months ago.

Hello my name is ***** ***** I am a licensed attorney. I welcome you to JustAnswer. Please note: This is general information for educational purposes only and is not legal advice. No specific course of action is proposed herein, and no attorney-client relationship or privilege is formed by speaking to an expert on this site. The question and response may be viewed by other parties as noted in JA’s terms of service. By continuing, you confirm that you understand and agree to these terms.

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Expert:  RONB-ESQ replied 11 months ago.

So I fully understand I need to gather a little more information. You mention 1st,3rd & 5th weekend. Do you and/or your spouse get visitation per the Court's order signed by the Judge? What county was the custody case held in? I am in Texas and familiar with Texas family law. Did the Court use the Texas Standard Visitation guide as part of the Court's order. You may want to retrieve your copy of it and look at that for me. Once I hear what County I may know, but it would be a good idea for you to confirm. Also how long ago was this Order entered? Just trying to understand if it is an old case or relatively new as in within the last 2-3 years.

Once you provide this information I can better answer your question.

Regards,

Ron

Customer: replied 11 months ago.
Nueces is County.. It was back in April 2015 the order doesn't state holidays visitations. It was signed by the judge
Expert:  RONB-ESQ replied 11 months ago.

While I do some quick research on Nueces County could you read through the attached standard order and just confirm it is not included? http://www.robertslegalfirm.com/downloads/spo.pdf

I will be back with you shortly. Could you also tell me who is primary conservator (picks home for child) and who is non-primary I am guessing that is you. I am just trying to understand is the Order setup for 2 different sets of Grandparents? Do the biological parents pay the other party child support?

Be back in a few minutes

Expert:  RONB-ESQ replied 11 months ago.

Are you still online with me?

If the child or children is/are 3 yrs or less this standard would not apply. But otherwise this is what is called out in the Family Code as Standard on Holidays distance apart irrelevant. If this is not in your order though it can't be forced.

Do you have a good working relationship with the possessory conservator or is it strained? I ask because the family code states that any visitation shall be deemed the minimum, but nothing shall prevent the parties from working out an agreement for additional time. Is it possible you could get the other side to agree to something like the following as it is setup so it can't really be confusing as it use odd vs even years instead of some date. That makes it easier to know when your time is under the order or your agreement.

Sec. 153.314. HOLIDAY POSSESSION UNAFFECTED BY DISTANCE PARENTS RESIDE APART. The following provisions govern possession of the child for certain specific holidays and supersede conflicting weekend or Thursday periods of possession without regard to the distance the parents reside apart. The possessory conservator and the managing conservator shall have rights of possession of the child as follows:

(1) the possessory conservator shall have possession of the child in even-numbered years beginning at 6 p.m. on the day the child is dismissed from school for the Christmas school vacation and ending at noon on December 28, and the managing conservator shall have possession for the same period in odd-numbered years;

(2) the possessory conservator shall have possession of the child in odd-numbered years beginning at noon on December 28 and ending at 6 p.m. on the day before school resumes after that vacation, and the managing conservator shall have possession for the same period in even-numbered years;

(3) the possessory conservator shall have possession of the child in odd-numbered years, beginning at 6 p.m. on the day the child is dismissed from school before Thanksgiving and ending at 6 p.m. on the following Sunday, and the managing conservator shall have possession for the same period in even-numbered years;

(4) the parent not otherwise entitled under this standard possession order to present possession of a child on the child's birthday shall have possession of the child beginning at 6 p.m. and ending at 8 p.m. on that day, provided that the parent picks up the child from the residence of the conservator entitled to possession and returns the child to that same place;

(5) if a conservator, the father shall have possession of the child beginning at 6 p.m. on the Friday preceding Father's Day and ending on Father's Day at 6 p.m., provided that, if he is not otherwise entitled under this standard possession order to present possession of the child, he picks up the child from the residence of the conservator entitled to possession and returns the child to that same place; and

(6) if a conservator, the mother shall have possession of the child beginning at 6 p.m. on the Friday preceding Mother's Day and ending on Mother's Day at 6 p.m., provided that, if she is not otherwise entitled under this standard possession order to present possession of the child, she picks up the child from the residence of the conservator entitled to possession and returns the child to that same place.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 20, Sec. 1, eff. April 20, 1995. Amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1036, Sec. 14, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.

Amended by:

Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1041 (H.B. 1864), Sec. 3, eff. June 15, 2007.

Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 1113 (H.B. 1012), Sec. 8, eff. September 1, 2009.

Customer: replied 11 months ago.
We have joint permanent management conservators and the aunt is the primary resident
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
still on line.
Expert:  RONB-ESQ replied 11 months ago.

I pulled this from Collin County this order is more what I am used to seeing. Do you think your relationship with the other party would allow you to take something like this and both parties agree to it outside of Court? http://www.collincountytx.gov/district_courts/Documents/dc_forms/spo98.pdf

I don't know that you would even want to read all of this as that is probably why you are here asking questions, but here is a recent version of the relevant portion of the Texas Family Code and you can hit ctrl button and f key and see a search box on upper right and search for terms. http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/FA/htm/FA.153.htm you can do a search for "Standard Possession Order" without quotes and at about #17 or so you will see the family codes language on the Standard Order. It is kind of hard to read statute. The link to the standard order in Collin County is easier to read than trying to read the family code and is typically used in Dallas, Tarrant, Denton, Collin and I assume Harris and Bexar. It may be that Nueces County is much smaller and just doesn't include one.

Was the original order drafted by an attorney or was it handled by non attorneys?

Expert:  RONB-ESQ replied 11 months ago.

I will give you a chance to read both the Holiday schedule from the statute and then if you would look through the Collin County standard order and then confirm these 2 questions for me.

If I correctly understand you, your order does not address holidays, but simply provides for 1st, 3rd & 5th weekends. Does it address school vacation such as spring break or summer break?

I am assuming the child or children are over 3 and I am guessing in school, but correct me if I am wrong.

I would still ask you to tell me if your relationship with the Aunt would allow the two of you to work out a different agreement something like what is laid out by the Collin County Standard Possession Order?

Once you post any comment back I will see you have responded and will come back to you. I am not going anywhere until I log off about 10:30 PM CST so take a little time and review the information and if you can answer my questions and then I will give you my final best answer.

Ron

Customer: replied 11 months ago.
I'm confused.. Would I be able to get them for this Christmas??
Expert:  RONB-ESQ replied 11 months ago.

I am sorry I got tied up researching something else. I will type your answer here it appears that you would prefer I just answer and presume the questions I raised above so I will do so now.

Customer: replied 11 months ago.
I'm sorry it's that I already missed Thanksgiving with them and now she tells me that she wants to keep them for Christmas.
Expert:  RONB-ESQ replied 11 months ago.

I am sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I can fully empathize as I have a 12 yr old nephew that gets dragged off to his fathers usually once a year with little notice on Christmas. In your case If you had an attorney I think he/she did you a disservice by not simply requesting that the Judge add the standard possession agreement to his final order as all of the holidays, school breaks, etc would have been addressed without room for any confusion.

I know this is not the answer you were seeking and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I have a professional obligation to provide you the most accurate information I can based on the limited information I get to see/review. Please note that when I ask for a positive feedback from you for my answer that I would ask you not to shoot the messenger and recognize that this is probably not what you wanted to hear, but you wanted accurate information and I am only paid after you leave positive feedback as to whether I provided you a sufficient answer to your question.

I have no other questions pending from other customers so please review my answer and know that I am here and will wait for you to review and then I will answer any follow up questions you have.

Your custody is governed entirely by the final order signed by the Judge. If it does not include holidays or any reference to them then the Order is silent on them and therefore the Conservator with possession (Aunt) has no obligation to tender the child (make child available on holidays) the Aunt is only required to comply with the letter of the Order and does not have to go beyond that. I kept asking if you two could work together I am just assuming here that you can't since you did not answer. That being the case the only way that you will ever legally be entitled to holidays is to file a Petition to Modify the existing order in Nueces County. It should be relatively simple to get a Judge to agree to the standard schedule I have provided you as the Family Code indicates that the Standard Possession Agreement is presumed to be in the best interest of the child.

If your order does not address holidays, time off for school breaks, etc then as I said the Aunt does not have to make the child available. All she has to is comply with your order. I would recommend that you consult with a local family law attorney. You can go to avvo.com and find one in your area and most will offer you a free 30 minute consultation. You should take the order you have with you so you get the most out of your 30 minute consultation. You can expect the attorney to provided a limited amount of information and then explain what he or she would need to do to change the current order and then explain his/her charges and what the costs would be.

Customer: replied 11 months ago.
Thank you.. That some it up. I figured that I got the short end of the order. Thanks for all you help.
Expert:  RONB-ESQ replied 11 months ago.

Thank you for understanding the bad news and recognizing that I didn't create it I just reviewed what you told me and showed you some typical examples of what you could have got and was the messenger of bad news.

In case you are new to Just Answer I wanted to let you know that I am just an attorney setting at my home office and do not work directly for them. After you leave positive feedback (good-excellent) then I get a portion of what you paid JA. Thank you in advance for leaving positive feedback before you log off. Do note that you are welcome to reply here with any follow up questions you have related to your original question for free as long as needed.

Regards,

Ron

Expert:  RONB-ESQ replied 11 months ago.

Just checking back to see if I fully answered your question and whether you need me to clarify anything before leaving feedback. THank you in advance for leaving positive feedback so I receive a portion of what you already paid JA for the time I spent answering your question.

Ron