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AlexiaEsq.
AlexiaEsq., Managing Attorney
Category: Employment Law
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Experience:  19+ Years of Legal Practice in the Employment law arena.
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I have a hearing with a MI Unemployment Agency, AdminLaw Judge

Customer Question

I have a hearing with a MI Unemployment Agency, AdminLaw Judge tomorrow via telephone. They are trying to recoup money paid to me for unemployment claim from last year. They are saying that I should not have gotten benefits. One job that was included in my claim was an internship for College credit that I was also paid for. I completed the internship and then worked short term somewhere else, after I was laid off I filed for unemployment insurance. I spoke with a UIA representative. She asked abut my Intern job, which I told her indeed it was an internship for college credit and monetary compensation, she asked if I expected to be hired full time. I stated that it was a possibility but no agreement had been made between myself or the employer. She then proceeded to say "lack of work" and continued on to the next question, I was granted benefits. I have documentation Sent to me from the UAI stating what I said. That my statement was taken over the phone, and that the job was an internship for college credit. I then sent the document back to UIA verifying the statement. I stated that I had no agreement with the internship company for future employment. I sent this back to the UAI and continued to get benefits for another month. I eventually got a job and ceased asking for benefits. I then was told I needed to repay $1250. I protested this, sending in copies of the above document with my original statement. What to expect, what to say?
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Employment Law
Expert:  AlexiaEsq. replied 4 years ago.

Welcome!

 

I am an attorney with 17+ years of legal experience, 15 of which involve significant employment related issues, and am working diligently on your answer. While I am permitted to provide you with legal information, I am prohibited by JustAnswer.com and various state bar associations from giving legal advice, representing you or entering into an attorney-client relationship through this open forum. Do you understand and agree to these provisions as well as Justanswer.com's disclaimer?

Please respond with a Yes or No to continue.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Do have any knowledge of these unemplyment issues in Michigan?
Expert:  AlexiaEsq. replied 4 years ago.

Yes, that is why I am on this question. However, I do need you to responde to the question regarding your understanding, or lack thereof, with the site and our interactions.

 

To repost for you:

 

 

Welcome!

 

I am an attorney with 17+ years of legal experience and am working diligently on your answer. While I am permitted to provide you with legal information, I am prohibited by JustAnswer.com and various state bar associations from giving legal advice, representing you or entering into an attorney-client relationship through this open forum. Do you understand and agree to these provisions as well as Justanswer.com's disclaimer?

Please respond with a Yes or No to continue.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Yes
Expert:  AlexiaEsq. replied 4 years ago.
Jay, can you reply with the UI section under which they ultimately decided to deny you coverage? (You'll find it in that paperwork.)
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

The Notice Of telephone hearing says "issues Involved In:

Redetermination 43 Exempt Employment

 

The following Sections may also Apply

20 (a) Credit to Employer: 29 (9) Possible Ineligibiltyy; 62 (B) Misrep, Not Intentional; 29 (1) (B) Misconduct; 29 (1) (A) Voluntary leaving

 

The Orginal Restitution Notice Syays "20 (a) Improper Payments 62 (a)

Expert:  AlexiaEsq. replied 4 years ago.

OK, you need to dispute that the facts that are indispute in your case, do not fit the exclusion. Here is the problem with 43, as it has an exclusion from "employment", internships where credits are earned:

 

Services excluded from term "employment."

 

Sec. 43. Except as otherwise provided in section 42(6), the term "employment" does not include any of the following:

..

(m) Service performed by an individual less than 22 years of age [if you are over 22, tell the judge and provide proof, although clearly they have this informatoin] who is enrolled, at a nonprofit or public educational institution that normally maintains a regular faculty and curriculum and normally has a regularly organized body of students in attendance at the place where its educational activities are carried on, as a student in a full-time program, taken for credit at the institution, which program combines academic instruction with work experience, if the service is an integral part of the program and the institution has certified that fact to the employer. [Confirm this part - if your work service is not an integral part of the program, use that fact. If the school did not 'certify' same to the employer...use that fact, bring it up to the judge.] This subdivision does not apply to service performed in a program established for or on behalf of an employer or group of employers.

 

And,

 

(q) Service performed for an employing unit other than a governmental entity or nonprofit organization and that is any of the following:

...

(ii) Service performed by a college student of any age, but only if the student's employment is a formal and accredited part of the regular curriculum of the school. [Argue that the employment is not 'formal and accredited', but since you got credits, I think you may be hard pressed on that one.] Perhaps argue against the "formal" issue, since you may not be able to argue "accredited."

 

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ua_mesact_3103_7.pdf

 

 

 

Now, with regard to:

 

 

20 (a) Credit to Employer: 29 (9) Possible Ineligibiltyy; 62 (B) Misrep, Not Intentional [Clearly this is not an issue....you accurately reported the paid internship it seems];

 

29 (1) (B) Misconduct; [same as above]29 (1) (A) Voluntary leaving [Not, they said it was your last day, right? As they only hired you temporarily]

 

Use section 62 to ask for a waiver:

"...Furthermore, except in a case of an intentional false statement, misrepresentation, or concealment of material information, the commission may waive recovery of an improperly paid benefit if the payment was not the fault of the individual and if repayment would be contrary to equity and good conscience. ""

 

Show how it would wipe you out, show how tight it is getting by as it is, etc., on top of the fact that you reported everything as asked, paid your taxes, and the UI person taking your information indicated all was fine.

 

Please press the ACCEPT button so I may be credited and paid for my time by Justanswer.com. You may always follow up with me after doing so. Positive feedback and a BONUS are always appreciated. Thank you and the best of luck.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Under Section 62, will I be able to place blame on the UIA for making the Mistake of paying me benifits when I was not entitled?

 

 

To get a Waiver to I have to prove both erorrs on the UAI behalf and good conscience/equity?

 

What does good conscience mean in this case?

 

Can I argue for Equity at the time I was recieving Benifits? Or do I havr to argue for equity referring to the ability to repay restitution now?

Expert:  AlexiaEsq. replied 4 years ago.

Hi again,

 

Under Section 62, will I be able to place blame on the UIA for making the Mistake of paying me benifits when I was not entitled? I would simply, without major rancor, stress to the judge that you presented all information accurately, the UI told you that you were eligible, it was the UI's mistake if you were not entitled, and you had "no fault" in the UI's alleged overpayment (error), as it resulted from UI's error. So yes, in showing you were without fault in the overpayment, you can show that they were at fault, since they made the overpayment on the same fully accurate information you gave them then, that they are now saying did not entitle you to payment.

 

 

To get a Waiver to I have to prove both erorrs on the UAI behalf and good conscience/equity? No, just prove any overpayment was without fault on your part, and that equity / conscience would have it that you need not have to pay this back.

 

What does good conscience mean in this case? Generally that the judge would feel is unfair, contrary to his 'conscience' to make you pay back. Show your lack of income now, or at least tight finances, as you put yourself through school, trying to further yourself, that you are a hardworker, always working while going to school, etc. If you are a millionairre, obviously this will be hard to show. If you have any documents that help your case, if you have a fax you can send things in to (you may have waited to long, as both sides need to get this evidence), you can submit more evidence perhaps. You can also ask the judge if he can accept some documents from you showing that any repayment obligation would be very difficult, after the hearing, if you get it out within 24 hours faxed to both sides (judge and other side). He may not allow it, but it never hurts to ask.

 

Can I argue for Equity at the time I was recieving Benifits? Or do I havr to argue for equity referring to the ability to repay restitution now? Equity refers to what is fair - and in section 62, it concerns NOW, the payment back of the overpayment. If legally you were not entitled to the benefits because of M, and/or Q of 43, which are exemptions from what one would normally think is employment, I would argue that given the fact that it was through no fault of yours, that it was needed for survival when you were laid off, that you are working now and going to school and things are extremely tight, and that your budget is so tight you are living on Raman noodles.. (if true, but you get my drift)...the point is, having an unexpected bill like this, even if on a payment plan, will be a great hardship.

 

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