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Mike
Mike, Master Electrician
Category: Electrical
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Experience:  Licensed Master Electrician - OnQ Certified Data Voice Audio Video Installer
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We replaced a breaker because it was shorted out from a

Customer Question

We replaced a breaker because it was shorted out from a contractor moving an outet. This caused our dishwasher to not have power. So upon replacing the breaker, not only did it not, work, but another breaker for the kitchen (across on breaker panel) went out. We just replaced that one as well and both are not working. We don't know why! Or how to fix.
JA: Just to clarify, what's the make and model of your dishwasher? And have you run a diagnostic test cycle?
Customer: It's not the dishwashers issue, it's a blown breaker issue. It's a brand new frigidaire that was working fine.
JA: Do you plan on doing the work yourself?
Customer: Trying to...
JA: Anything else we should know to help you best?
Customer: Hmmm...don't think so. I originally replaced it with a non-siemens brand breaker(original breaker), & when that didn't work I did get the correct brand. Not sure if that matters
Submitted: 2 months ago.
Category: Electrical
Expert:  Kevin replied 2 months ago.

Hello and welcome to Just Answer. My name is ***** ***** I will be happy to assist you with your electrical question.

1) Just curious, since the contractor relocated an outlet, how come you are not calling the contractor to correct the problem?

2) Is the dishwasher cord & plug connected or hard-wired?

3) Is the a GFCI device on the circuit?

4) Do you have a 2 wire lead AC voltage tester or a multi-meter to take some voltage measurements?

5) Only breakers of the same brand as the panelboard are allowed. Foreign breakers are not listed to a specific panel.

Expert:  Kevin replied 2 months ago.

Hello and welcome to Just Answer. My name is ***** ***** I will be happy to assist you with your electrical question.

1) Just curious, since the contractor relocated an outlet, how come you are not calling the contractor to correct the problem?

2) Is the dishwasher cord & plug connected or hard-wired?

3) Is there a GFCI device on the circuit?

4) Do you have a 2 wire lead AC voltage tester or a multi-meter to take some voltage measurements?

5) Only breakers of the same brand as the panelboard are allowed. Foreign breakers are not listed to a specific panel.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Hello Kevin,
The contractor/person was helping with installing our kitchen sink and said he did electrical stuff too, he is not a certified electrician, and his main employer is a countertop fabricator. He was trying to help with other things and ended up causing this problem. #2, hardwired, #3-yes, it is still tripping after the replacements #4 yes, I have the voltage meter. 5- ok.
Expert:  Kevin replied 2 months ago.

Thanks for the replies.

1) Keep in mind there is a reason why you should only allow licensed electricians to perform work in the home. This is a good example:)

2) Turn the breaker to the OFF position and disconnect the hard-wire from the DW. Spread out the house black, white and bare copper ground or green ground wires so they don't cause a direct short. Restore power to the breaker. Then measure for voltage from hot to neutral, hot to ground and neutral to ground on the 3 wires. Let me know the voltage measurements. Does the breaker still trip when not connected to the DW?

3) Is the breaker a full size single pole type? It is possible that the circuit is configured as a shared neutral circuit. Remove the panel door and trace the hot wire from the breaker and confirm it the circuit was installed using a 3 wire Romex cable that contains 2 hots and 1 white neutral. If a 3 wire cable, is there another breaker that is stacked on top or directly to the bottom of the tripping breaker?

Expert:  Kevin replied 2 months ago.

1) Trace out the 2 hot wires on each of the problem breakers? Do they share a common white neutral wire or does each breaker have it's own dedicated white neutral wire terminating at the neutral bus bar?

Expert:  Kevin replied 2 months ago.

1) What is the 2nd breaker controlling? A garbage disposal or countertop receptacles?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
There's no power at all to the dishwasher, no voltage readings at all either of course. There WAS, at the point where we knew we needed to replace a breaker, but after we replaced it, no power is going anywhere. I removed the panel and wires, no voltage. The gci outlet in the kitchen is what 'trips', doesn't stay in, when I push the little button. I have some voltage in outlets but not offers in kitchen. Both dishwasher (double 15) and 'kitchen breaker' (double 20) are on a double breaker. The wires seem to have individual whites
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I mean each breaker has individual white, along with 2 black, & 1 red
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
There are breakers on top and bottom of each non working breaker, but those seem to function fine
Expert:  Kevin replied 2 months ago.

Thanks for the replies.

1) For now, disconnect the hot wires at each of the problem breakers and measure for voltage from the breaker screw to the neutral bus bar. I assume you will measure 120 volts, please confirm.

2) At the GFCI, are there LOAD wires terminated or only LINE side wires? If LOAD wires are terminated at the GFCI, kill power to the breaker and temporarily remove the LOAD wires at the GFCI. Restore power to the breaker and reset the GFCI. Does the GFCI still trip under a no load condition?

Expert:  Kevin replied 2 months ago.

1) Please confirm, is it only the GFCI that is tripping or each of the 2 breakers or all 3 that trip?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Hmm, this is taking some time, and I was using voltage meter to test dw before I connected the hardwire again and it has power, but my voltage meter seemed to spark significantly...I didn't get a read! The gfci seems to trip, the breakers, how do I know if they trip? I may have to continue this tomorrow, getting late here
Expert:  Kevin replied 2 months ago.

Thanks for the replies.

1) Unfortunately problems such as this are not always a simple 5 minute fix and you're done. Troubleshooting an electrical issue takes time and patience:)

2) You need to remove the LOAD wires at the GFCI if it has LOAD wires. I suspect the circuit was configured as a shared neutral. If a shared neutral, a GFCI will trip every time if the shared neutral is terminated to the GFCI LOAD side.

3) I am going to opt out of the question as I don't want to delay the troubleshooting process. I am leaving early tomorrow morning traveling out of state and I won't have internet access until my return this Saturday. So rather than keep you waiting, I'm sure another electrical expert here can work with you.

No need to reply back to me, you will be notified once another expert picks up the question. In the meantime, take care and have a good evening.........Thanks........Kevin:)

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