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Mike G.
Mike G., Master Electrician
Category: Electrical
Satisfied Customers: 7241
Experience:  Proven Professional 48 years Experience
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I have a Franklin QD control box wired into a breaker switch

Customer Question

Hello,I have a Franklin QD control box wired into a breaker switch in a subpanel that has wires going up to my water tank to control a float switch and wires going down to my pump to shut it off when the float switch reaches its cutoff point. My question is; How do I use the power going down to the pump from the control box to wire in a second subpanel at the pump where I can put an extra outlet to use when the pump isnt running?
Submitted: 6 months ago.
Category: Electrical
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

Hi, I'm Mike G and I'll be assisting you. To accomplish getting power for an always hot receptacle you'll need to pick up the circuit ahead of the control box and either run a seperate run to that receptacle or if the run to the pump outlet is in conduit, run the circuits together.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
You are saying I need to run new wire, seperate from what is in the control box? I have already achieved the first step, which was to have the pump powered from a new breaker switch next to the pump after the control box. Now I just want to be able to power another switch and outlet while the pump switch is off using the same power. That isnt possible?
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

It's possible. All you need to do is extend the feed before the connection to the control terminations to the additional outlet.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Is that possible to splice the wires inside the control box to do that, or do I need an entirely new wire to the new outlet?
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

Splice them at their entry into the control box

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I just want to use the wires that are there, even if it means the entire subpanel box at the pump is being controlled by the float switch. This is just temporary, so for the mean time I can just make sure the tank is never full until I install a more permanent sub-box, which will require new wire buried in conduit coming from an entirely different main panel. What Im not understanding is how to change the way the power is flowing through the wires coming out of the control terminal that go to the pump. All of the wires in the conduit going to the pump are coming from the control terminal, so how can I splice the hot wires from the terminal with the feed before the connections without interfering with the control box outputs to the pump?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Ive already got power to the subpanel, my problem is that the other breaker to the new outlet only has power when the breaker to the pump is on. How do I wire it so that when the breaker to the pump is off, the new breaker will remain on?
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

At the control box you have incoming feed and put going control wires. By splicing the incoming and running it along with the controlled wires will give you both outlets that you want.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Which requires new wire?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
What do you mean by 'put going control wires'?
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

Sorry, typo..... out going controlled wires.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
do I need new wire? Because my whole reasoning for doing this was to have temporary power while I work on setting up a whole new feed from a different source.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Or are you saying to just jump the terminal from incoming feed to the the outgoing wires? Therefore splicing the the main power from the switch back into one of the wires going down to the pump?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Hello? Still there?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Any chance you could answer my question? Can I just use the existing wires, or do I need to run an entirely new wire through the conduit that is spliced with the incoming feed to the control terminal, therefore bypassing the controlled wires?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Alright, if you cant answer my question I don't have all day to wait around for your response. You got 2 minutes.
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

If you want to, yes you can. I thought you wanted an additional hot outlet. You can also put a double pole double through switch in the control box allowing for the single outlet to be auto it hot all the time.

Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

I can only reply to you when the message gets to me.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
in that case, why is it that when the breaker to the pump is off, there is no power to the secondary breaker for the new outlet? Did i wire it wrong, or does the control terminal require the pumps power to be engaged in order for full power to be present. Its confusing.
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

You should have power to the control and from there to the pump. A splice on the power to bypass the control will give you power to the alternate. Now this can all be accomplished for use with a switch in the control box. It would allow the pump to be auto or manual.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
the control box is very small. About 4 inches by 6 inches and full of wires. Can I have the DPDT switch outside the box and wire the incoming feeds from breaker box to it and have doubled outgoing feeds to the control; one set going to control terminal and one set bypassing control terminal and reconnecting with a splice into outgoing from control terminal to breaker box at the pump. Then when I switch the DPDT to the spliced connection, I will get full power to the Breaker box at the pump and be able to use the secondary breaker to power an outlet without the pump breaker being switched on? I this correct or am i missing something?
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

To have a working outlet at your second breaker box, an additional set of wires would be necessary if you want the second breaker idependant. I don't know why there is a second panel anyway.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
The Main panel is at my house, where the control box is hooked up, and the secondary panel is 500 ft below at the pump. I hooked up this panel so I could route the power that was originally going directly to the pump into the box instead and split the connection into two breaker switches, of which one is wired directly to the pump. So, why does the pump breaker have to be on, in order for the second breaker to have power? I don't get it. At this time I dont mind if the float switch at my tank is governing the power to the panel a the pump through the control terminal, I just want to be able to switch off the pump at the box next to the pump and use that power for a secondary outlet. Does that make sense?
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

There in lies the problem. Installing the second breaker box and expecting to have an outlet live all the time when the feed down to the new breaker is controlled from the house is impossable. The feed is either hot or not depending on the control box and the float switch. You'll need a second circuit to accomplish what you intend.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I think you are misunderstanding what I mean. The power from the control box, is going into a sub panel. In the sub panel is a breaker switch which is wired to the pump. There is also a breaker that is wired to an outlet. Im getting power to the pump through the breaker no problem. However, when that breaker to the pump is off, the secondary breaker will not power the outlet. So, why cant I simply capture the power in the sub-panel and route it to whichever breaker is on at the time. It seems stupidly simple.
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

Float is at the house and determines when power is going to pump. Installing a panel with independant breakers to pump and another to an outlet. Can't have power without the float switch closed. You can only have the 2 outlets powered depending on the float switch.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
the float switch cuts power when the tank is full, so if the pump is not being powered, and the tank isn't full, there should be no interruption with the power flow to the secondary switch, right?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I suppose this is an odd topic, but I have to depart from the conversation for a bit. Could we pick it up another time? I feel like we are getting close to solving this problem.
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

Come back when you can.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Gotta go. I will talk to you later Mike. Thanks for putting up with my strange electrical inquiries.
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

Very good.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
hey mike, any chance you are around?
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

I'm online.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I thought about what you said and came up with the idea to splice the wires before entry, and tie them into DPDT switch that is connected to a set of wires that splice into the outgoing feed down to the new breaker box. My question is, how do I prevent the spliced connection from feeding back into the Control terminal? Do I need two switches? One at entry from main breaker to control box and one at exit from control box down to subpanel? That was the only way I could reason how to control the flow of current to completely bypass the controlbox and therefore send the positive/negative/ground feed from main breaker to power the secondary breaker in the panel by the pump.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I already attempted to completely bypass the control panel, but when I did, I could only get power to the secondary breaker for extra outlet and no longer to the new breaker switch for pump. Whereas before, I could only get power the pump breaker independently and then to the secondary breaker switch while the Pump switch was on.
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

Let me ask exactly what you have with the float. The reason being that with a bladder tank and a pressure switch at tge pump the single feed would be able to power the sub panel. But there is another issue doing that, the sub panel needs a 4 wire feed and a driven ground rod.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Im not sure what you are asking? Could you rephrase your question? You want to know what type of float switch I have, and weather or not I have a ground rod at my sub-panel?
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

It may be faster and better for us to speak via a phone. I'll send the offer.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Can you answer my question about using the switches to bypass the control box and pickup the connection without feedback into control box?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I already know that the pump will run the way it is wired into the sub-panel breaker from the connection through the control box, and so will the switch if the control-box is bypassed.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I just need to know if two DPDT switches will work to do the bypass?
Expert:  Mike G. replied 6 months ago.

The use of switches and a panel is not workable. You have one controlled circuit and you want to impossibly modify it

I think we've come to the end. I'll opt out because we aren't getting anywhere. Good luck.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I guess I will have to not rate you then.

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