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AssuredElectrical
AssuredElectrical, Master Electrician
Category: Electrical
Satisfied Customers: 4241
Experience:  Contractor-42+ Years in the ElectricalTrade
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You've already answered several similar questions, but I'm

Customer Question

Hello. You've already answered several similar questions, but I'm still not clear. I have a marathon 1/3hp 1 phase motor, says it is reversible. I will attach pictures for everything whee we start the session. I am trying to write it to a Kedu HC3 reversing switch, and the switch to power (using 14/3 cord), and can't figure out how to do that.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Electrical
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Please see attached pictures of motor including label with its diagram, switch and my power cord
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.

Welcome. My name is ***** ***** would be glad to assist.

Can you provide a little more detail.

Post a picture of the motors nameplate

Does the HC3 switch have any type of information inside the cover, like a diagram of the contacts?

If so, post a picture of it as well.

In the meantime, will search for the switch, but cannot search on the motor since there is no Model listed.

Let me know and we can continue,

Thanks

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Picture 14402962467491018760275 is the wiring instructions that came with the switch.Picture 1440296033616-665632469 is the motor name plate, and it contains all the information about the motor, including a model number, but I already searched for instructions based on the model numbers, and found nothing. That's why I turned to this site, hoping to find someone who knows how to wire these without instructions.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
By the way, everything you asked me for was already there, so I'm a bit frustrated that you asked for it apparently without first looking at what I provided.Also - if there were clear instructions out there on the Internet on how to do this - I wouldn't need this service.
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.

Ok,

Sorry but there is only ONE picture posted, the one showing the inside of the motor wiring compartment, nothing else.

Do you see the pictures on your PC screen posted here? If so, let me know so I can report a technical problem with the site.

But I need to see what all the information is either way, try to post again, your files may have been too large and they did not post or else they did not get attached.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
There are 6 pictures attached, and I can see all no problem when I log in using two different browsers, so it's fine from my end. All the information you asked for its in those 6 pictures.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Label on motor
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Wiring diagram for the switch
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Power line I intend to use to connect power to the switch
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Wiring box inside motor
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
One side of the switch with connection points
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Other side of the switch with connection points
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.

Ok, thanks for the new upload of pictures.

I am going to contact our support team to report an issue, as the first time you posted pictures, they show up on our old Q and A format pages, but our new design pages.

I switched over to the old format and see them now from the first post, so I will use this page for all correspondence.

Now, the pictures give a lot of information, but unfortunately, with all the foreign made items, some information is lacking. Look at the switch posting, so I can provide some details.

They show connecting to a motor with the switch, which is good, but they do not tell you the particular motor.

There are literally hundreds of motors and they all wire differently. US made switches, do not show motor wiring, they show switch contact configuration.

That gives you the details of each terminals contact with other terminals on the switch. Basically the contact closure. That is what we need here. and the only way to determine this, is to use a continuity meter and check them.

Measuring between the terminals to each other in all 3 positions of the switch.

Your motor is designed to wire and run in one direction for the standards. It can be used for reversing with a switch, I have done many.

It just takes a little more work and another reason to know the switch contacts make and break form each other.

Trying to explain so that you can understand the situation. Can you run a continuity test and find the contact configuration?

I can try to find a motor with the identical leads as the switch diagram, but that can take a while since I will have to go through databases to acquire as many motors as possible. It actually looks like possibly, someone had a motor wired to the switch based on their notes/sketching on the diagram, if that is the case, if I had that motors label, I could back into the switch contact setup by making a diagram on it and using it for the determination. Either way, we have to determine the contacts.

Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.

This is how the switches are normally shown:

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I'm assuming S and R on the switch are the mains power in? They are in the middle of the contacts, in between 5 and V on one side, and 6 and U on the other side of the cylinder (the body of the switch). Is that correct? If so - which on is live and which one is the neutral? And where does ground connect to? In between S and R?
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.

As far as power in, that depends on your motor connection.

The diagram shows where they connect power for their motor.

As explained, there are hundreds of motors that wire differently.

On their motor, yes, power is to the S and R, but that can change with other motors because of the differences in design and the contacts make and breaks.

That is what I am trying to explain in the posting prior, there are so many possibilities, we need the contact configuration.

That is why their switch has no bearing with your motor on the diagram.

It could be the same on the power, but all the other will be different, because you do not have that motor, yours will be totally different.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I'm getting out of the house for a few hours, but I can test when I get back using me fluke-style analyzer - if you tell me exactly how to set it up and what to test (please be as detailed and simple as possible, something like "set the meter to 200 ohm, set switch to off position, touch terminal X with red probe and terminal Y with black probe" etc. Thanks
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.

Ok, excellent. Nice meter.

Pretty simple testing here, set meter for 200 ohms, that is good enough.

You will test EACH terminal to all the others in 3 positions of the switch.

So:

Switch position OFF (center position)

Test lead red to R

Now use the black lead to all the others and see if you read continuity.

Now move the red to S and test it to all the others with the black lead

Then red to U and test it to all the others

Then red to V and test it to all the others

Then red to 5 and test it to all the others

Then red to 6 and test it to all the others

Now, move the switch to the Right position and do all the same tests over again

Then move the switch to the Left position and do all the same tests over again

Seems like a lot, but it very fast

Write down all findings

Center position--continuity will be yes or no

R to S --

R to V--

R to U--

R to 5--

R to 6--

S to V--

S to U--

S to 5--

S to 6--

U to V--

U to 5--

U to 6--

V to 5--

V to 6--

5 to 6--

Right position--continuity will be yes or no

R to S --

R to V--

R to U--

R to 5--

R to 6--

S to V--

S to U--

S to 5--

S to 6--

U to V--

U to 5--

U to 6--

V to 5--

V to 6--

5 to 6--

LEFT position--continuity will be yes or no

R to S --

R to V--

R to U--

R to 5--

R to 6--

S to V--

S to U--

S to 5--

S to 6--

U to V--

U to 5--

U to 6--

V to 5--

V to 6--

5 to 6--

Thanks

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi. Here are the results:Center position--continuity will be yes or noR to S -- noR to V-- noR to U-- noR to 5-- noR to 6-- noS to V-- noS to U-- noS to 5-- noS to 6-- noU to V-- noU to 5-- noU to 6-- noV to 5-- noV to 6-- no5 to 6-- noRight position--continuity will be yes or noR to S -- noR to V-- noR to U-- yesR to 5-- noR to 6-- yesS to V-- yesS to U-- noS to 5-- yesS to 6-- noU to V-- noU to 5-- noU to 6-- yesV to 5-- yesV to 6-- no5 to 6-- noLEFT position--continuity will be yes or noR to S -- noR to V-- noR to U-- yesR to 5-- yesR to 6-- noS to V-- yesS to U-- noS to 5-- noS to 6-- yesU to V-- noU to 5-- yesU to 6-- noV to 5-- noV to 6-- yes5 to 6-- no
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I think I just found you answering almost the same question before - same switch like I have, only the motor was different:http://my.justanswer.com/question/guest/77a9cd59e7b147b2a258d1d4e0389227
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
this is what I'm guessing I should do, tell me if you agree:110 live to drum switch connector R
110 neutral to drum switch connector S
(what do I do with the ground wire?)Drum switch 6 to motor T5 (black)
Drum switch V to motor T4 (yellow)
Drum switch U to motor T1 (or P1,either way - blue wire on motor)
Drum switch 5 to motor T8 (red)
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Regarding ground from our on the switch - it has a third connector in the middle row between the R and S connectors, which had no marking on it. Could that be where I connect the power cable ground wire to?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I meant to write "regarding ground from power line to the switch" instead of that first sentence just now...
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.

Ok,

Did an initial connection and there are issues with this type motor, which I have run into every time with the drum switches.

You guess should not be used, it will damage the motor.

You will only change the red and black wires, there are no other wires to touch on this type motor.

This type motor, you actually remove the red wire off that stab connection, then connect a new one tot he stab connection.

Then you do the same for the black, remove it, then add another one to that stab.

That gives you 2 red wires and 3 black wires.

The way this motor reverses, is by physically moving the red wire tot he black wire stab and vice versa.

That is why they are not designed for drum switches, like motors with all loose lead connections.

We are one contact short on the drum switch for it work unfortunately. I see this every time and another switch is installed to control the motor on and off.

The drum switch is used for the direction only, so you set the drum switch to right or left, then use a power switch to turn it on.

Certainly not what is perfect, but there is unfortunately no other way with this motor.

I have several diagrams in my database where this has been done many times, when these motors are purchased.

All motors are not equal.

See the initial diagram below to hopefully help understand the situation.

Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.

OK,

Looking at your motor, you can verify something, and if it is true, then you can connect it to the drum switch with no issues.

It actually will work as you posted.

I went over it again, basing it on ONLY the wires see in the picture.

If you remove that circuit board and there are NO other wires inside that area besides, the blue,red,yellow,black, then your are definitely in business.

Many motors have wires attached tot he backside of that board and why they have it to start with instead of loose wires.

So, verify the situation and confirm there are no other wires and you are good to go.

You will need to remove the board inside to allow enough room for the wire connections inside, otherwise it will be very tight.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I'll check and let you know
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.

Very good.

Wish they used a standard like they did years ago, but so many motors are manufactured overseas, they many variations now from one to the next.

Hopefully no other wires behind the board and all will be well.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I'm not going to be able to work on this next few days, I'm going into emergency surgery tomorrow morning, but I'll let you know how it worked out when I get back. Thanks
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.

Ok, thanks for the update.

Wish you the best and will await your return.

Thanks

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