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AssuredElectrical
AssuredElectrical, Master Electrician
Category: Electrical
Satisfied Customers: 4241
Experience:  Contractor-42+ Years in the ElectricalTrade
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I ran 220 line to spa junction box (has power) current will

Customer Question

I ran 220 line to spa junction box (has power) current will not pass through GFCI to spa box (no reset). I had to use spade lug (connectors) for the #6 gauge stranded wire, but these are too wide to fit nicely on the post. I screwed it down as tight as I could. Is a possible loose connection the likely culprit? How do you know when a ground fault breaker is bad, short of replacing it?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Electrical
Expert:  Mike G. replied 1 year ago.
Hi, I'm Mike and I'll be glad to assist you. Are you using a spa pack with a GFCI no face device? Is this a new installation?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I am not sure what no face means. It is a new installation. The junction box is from Midwest Electic products and has a ground fault breaker.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The spa is a used one with a Nu-Wave connector box. The spa was fully functional before purchase and transport. It has dual 110 and 220 capability, but is set for 220. The spa junction box is for 50 amps as is the breaker in the main box.
Expert:  Mike G. replied 1 year ago.
If it won't reset, there could be several reasons. The breaker should allow the wire to terminate without a lug. Can you upload a picture for review?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I do not have that capability. The #6 stranded wire is obviously quite thick. The "post" in the spa box has six vertical rows 1 incoming red on left and outgoing black to heater relay (pre-existing) 2 left has a jumper connected to 3 left 2 right also leads to heater relay 3 left incoming hot black 3 right black to gfci 4 left is incoming neutral white right is white 5 and 6 right black from gfci (load). I hope this gives you a picture. The cavity with a metal screw to hold down wire is not wide enough to accomodate the spade lug. If it would be helpful, perhaps we could talk(###) ###-####
Expert:  Mike G. replied 1 year ago.
I went online to look at the unit having the model number given. It didn't resemble what you described. Rather than continue I think it better to opt out and let another expert help, who may be familiar with that unit. Please stand by. Good luck.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The box I was describing is the connector box in the spa itself (Nu-Wave). I figure there has to be something amiss here,since everything is new and working to the Midwest junction box.
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.
Welcome. My name is ***** ***** would be glad to assist.
Lets get all the information and then we can move forward to get it going:
1. What wires did you install from the main breaker panel to the GFCI Midwest pack?
2. What wires are installed from the GFCI to the Spa terminal board?
3. On the wires to the Spa, how are the connected at the GFCI?
Need EXACTLY how all wires connected.
4. On the wires form the main panel to the Midwest, EXACTLY how are they connected now?
Let me know and we can continue,
Thanks
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
#6 gauge stranded wire is run from the main breaker to the spa box and the red and black lines are connected to the "hot" bar. The neutral is positioned accordingly with the other neutral (ground fault line) and the ground is grounded. There is power to this point. The red and black lines are attached to the bottom and top respectively of the ground fault breaker and extenf to th Nu-Wave Spa Controller panel and are attached via the spade lug at the appropriate point. The controller's internal GF remains in its previous operational mode prior to to purchase and relocation. As described in my previous post, the black wire to the GFCI line comes off a screw moving to the right with the incoming black wire on an adjacent screw to the left. The same is true of the neutral white lines on the fourth vertical row. These extend to the GFCI and connect to the hot and neutral sides properly.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
There is a jumper line which coonects vertical lines 2 and 3. I have attempted to superimpose the hot black wire via spade lug on top of this loop and compressed it tightly. This is the only loose connection I can think of other than the hot red line and neutral white lines, which again, I tried to tighten even though they do not fit nicely on the post.
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.
Ok, thanks.
Still not able to understand the wiring as it is now.
Let me start with this:
1. Power from the main panel to he Midwest disconnect is 4 wires, red,black,white and ground.
2. Power from the Midwest to the Spa is also 4 wires, red, black, white and ground.
NOW:
The Midwest box, has 2 large terminals for incoming power.
What is connected to them?
It then has, a short bar with one large terminal screw and several small screws.
What is connected to it?
Then on the other side there is yet another small bar attached to the metal can.
What is on that bar.
Then the breaker has a pigtail wire, where does it connect?
The breaker also has 3 screw terminals for wires.
What is connected?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The red and black lines are connected to the large terminal. The white wire is connected to the small bar as is th pigtail wire. The breaker has a black wire at top, the white (pigtail) in the middle, and the red wire in the bottom slot and we have power.
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 1 year ago.
Ok, thanks.
The wiring sounds correct with the exception of the ground wires needed.
Below is a link to a diagram I uploaded for verification.
----------------------------------------------------
http://tinypic.com/r/k2z5oi/8
----------------------------------------------------
Now since it appears the wiring is correct here, do this first test:
Disconnect the black and red wires AT THE SPA terminals only.
Then turn on the GFCI and see if it holds.
The Spa should have the same setup as the disconnect.
One lug for the black
One for the Red
One for the Neutral
AND a ground bar for the ground wire, this is usually copper and has one or more large bar ground wires connected to any metal parts on the pump, motor and heater section.
If the breaker holds properly, then need to look at the internal components for any loose wires or plugs that make have disconnected on the transfer and moving.
Verify the breaker in the main breaker for this disconnect is also a 50 amp double pole breaker, as we may have to do some bypass testing after we get the results.
Keep me posted.
Thanks

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