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Dr. Peter
Dr. Peter, Veterinarian
Category: Dog Training
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Experience:  I have been practicing for 16 years focusing on surgery, internal medicine, reproduction, and rehabilitation.
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My female dog is about 2.5 years old. She was rescued and

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My female dog is about 2.5 years old. She was rescued and spayed back in September (11 months ago), stayed in foster care for 2 months (foster says she never had an accident in the house), then was adopted by me in December. Last month she started going to my sister's house for doggie daycare. She is completely housetrained when she is with me (only had 2 accidents at the very beginning back in December), but now has been peeing at my sister's house. My sister has 2 dogs. The dogs all get along together. My vet did a urinalysis and has ruled out a urinary tract infection or stones. It was very confusing because no one witnessed her squatting or marking, until today my sister saw the urine puddle form while my dog was laying on the kitchen floor, so the urination does not seem to be a conscious act. My sister lets my dog outside regularly and sees her urinate outside, but then still finding urine puddles inside. Any suggestions?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Dog Training
Expert:  Sally G. replied 1 year ago.

Sally G. :

Hello, thank you for using this site to help you with your problem. My name is XXXXX XXXXX I have been in the dog field for 25 years. It will be my pleasure to help you today. Please understand that I may send an information request so that I may gather what I need to better help you with your problem.

Sally G. :

Did you talk to your vet about in continence?

Sally G. :

sorry * incontinence

Customer:

I did. The vet felt that if it were incontinence, it would be happening all the time. My dog hasn't peed at my house since December; it's only happening at my sister's house. My sister lets her outside frequently. Today my sister found a huge pee puddle, let dog outside, saw her pee outside, cleaned up up pee with enzyme cleaner. Let dog back in, and 5 minutes later witnessed pee puddle forming on floor right behind dog. Dog hadn't had a whole lot of water leading up to it, either.

Customer:

FYI, She goes to my sister's house for 6-9 hours a day 3 times a week, the rest of the time is with me.

Customer:

I see you're typing, but I need to run to catch the train home. Thanks in advance for any suggestions you can provide.

Sally G. :

I would go back to the vet. This is not intentional marking as she is laying down and it sounds like the beginning of incontinence. Your sister has a couple of dogs so that means she may be getting more of a workout and be in a deeper sleep or, if your dog has any fear of passing another dog in the home she may not alert your sister she needs to go out. But I would have more tests run for illness and it would not hurt to talk again to your vet about spay incontinence and try some meds which would work in about 3 days . Diseases such as Diabetes would have her go in inappropriate places and times .

Sally G. :

Do you know the breed mix? I can look up some of the prone diseases to each breed which may be a help

Expert:  Sally G. replied 1 year ago.

Our chat has ended, but you can still continue to ask me questions here until you are satisfied with your answer.

Here is more on incontinence and it reasons or causes.

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/urinary-incontinence-in-dogs/page1.aspx

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Sally, she's a pit mix. DNA test said mix of Am Staff, boxer, plott hound, and mixed breed. No fear of sister's dogs (female pit mix and male Rhodesian ridgeback mix). Gets excited to see and play with sister's dogs, but urination not happening upon sight or during play, but rather afterwards when relaxing. Sister said today she didn't drink tons of water, either. I thought it might be problem of timing between exercise, water, and going outside. I live in condo with no yard, so for good workout off leash (playing fetch) we have to go to dog park, so she has time to cool off and pee again after drive home before going inside. Sister has fenced yard, so fast transition between inside/outside. But sister said dog was inside for 15 minutes, found puddle and let dog outside. Dog peed outside. Sister cleaned up with enzyme cleaner, dog came back inside, did not drink water, and still peed again when laying down 5 minutes later. Was not deep asleep; still panting lightly because hot outside. Do those extra details help? I'll read the info on the links you sent, too.
Expert:  Sally G. replied 1 year ago.
Whenever they pee laying down and are not aware of it incontinence is the first thing to check. Some dogs get excited urination where they have no control but this is happening after play and at a time she is relaxed so I think there is some type of neurological issue going on,When she is with you she is probably pooped from the day of play, this is happening after play, when she is relaxed after play or has had a recent play time. Either way something is wrong. The boxer breed is prone to urinary incontinence. However I want you to get all possibilities so I will opt out of the question and see if there are vets online now and send this over to them. Do not reply to me at all or you will lock others out of the question. I want you to be able to get to the bottom of this.


You will see an opt out by my name that tells others to pick up the question but if you answer me now it will lock them out:) Hang on
Expert:  Sally G. replied 1 year ago.
I am sorry, I see this only came to dog training I need to put it over to Vet for them to take a look. Someone will get to you as soon as possible. Again I want you to get the best answer possible but from a training standpoint I think you are looking at a medical and not a training problem.
Expert:  Dr. Peter replied 1 year ago.
Hi, I am Dr. Peter and would like to help. Unconscious urination especially occurring while sleeping or laying down is caused by urethral sphincter incontinence. It typically occurs in older, spayed female dogs but I have seen it in young dogs. There are two medications that can treat it: DES (diethylstilbestrol) which is an estrogen supplement, and PPA (phenylpropanolamine) which helps the muscle of the urethra contract more tightly. My personal preference is to treat younger dogs with this problem with DES as it needs to be given about once weekly as opposed to PPA which has to be given daily.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX I'm taking her to see a different vet tomorrow and will discuss this with them. When I called my vet about it yesterday, he was convinced it was behavioral and wanted to put her on Xanax or some other anti-anxiety type of medication and I strongly disagree with that; I really feel she must have something physical happening. Thank you for your thoughts on the problem, possible medications and treatment preference; this will give me the proper terminology to discuss with the vet tomorrow.

Expert:  Dr. Peter replied 1 year ago.

Good luck ! Feel free to ask further questions after your vet visit.

Dr. Peter, Veterinarian
Category: Dog Training
Satisfied Customers: 56
Experience: I have been practicing for 16 years focusing on surgery, internal medicine, reproduction, and rehabilitation.
Dr. Peter and other Dog Training Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi Dr. Peter,


The vet we saw today agreed that it is not behavioral because it was happening when she was laying down. He recommended starting with Proin (PPA) because of the risk of anemia and loss of bone density with DES. I gave her the first dose (he prescribed 50mg; she weighs 61 lbs) when we got home this morning. 2.5 hours later she vomited 3 times and was very lethargic. She has perked up a bit this evening and ate most of her dinner. I called the vet's office to tell them about the vomiting and was told by the person who answered to skip the Proin dose tonight and try again in the morning. It concerned me that it wasn't a vet telling me to do this, but rather just the person who answered the call. I called again later and left a voicemail, but haven't heard anything back. I was wondering what your opinion is?


 


Thank you,


Karen

Expert:  Dr. Peter replied 1 year ago.

Good morning. The most likely side effects of PPA are restlessness, irritability, and transient hypertension. Vomiting is pretty unusual with PPA so I might think that it has nothing to do with the PPA. However, medications can do just about anything but PPA will not cause any permanent trouble. I would suggest giving 1/2 the prescribed dosage of PPA with food for 2 days then up to regular dose if everthing is fine.

 

As far as DES and side effects, I have been prescribing DES for incontinence for years and my boss (old time vet) even longer and we have never seen anemia or bone loss in these patients. Most people decide DES over PPA simply because of cost (DES usually cheaper) and ease of compliance (1-2 times weekly dosing). I even have some patients that need both medications to control their incontinence.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for the additional information. This morning I gave her the prescribed dose as I was instructed yesterday and there hasn't been any vomiting. Perhaps it was the stress of going to a new vet's office. Thank you for the additional information about side affects.

Expert:  Dr. Peter replied 1 year ago.
Good luck. Feel free to continue the conversation in the future.

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