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VetTechErin
VetTechErin, Licensed Vet Tech
Category: Dog Veterinary
Satisfied Customers: 680
Experience:  Published author in veterinary medical journals and on the Veterinary Information Network with a focus in toxicology
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I am reading your post on Ortho rodent poison Read more: http://www.j

Customer Question

Hi Dr. Matt...I am reading your post on Ortho rodent poison. I think you have the calculation wrong with 0.0025%*12 grams...to convert to mg.
I think each block contains 30 mg of Difethialone
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Dog Veterinary
Expert:  VetTechErin replied 1 year ago.
Hi there! My name is ***** ***** I'd be happy to answer your question about your dog and the rodenticide.
Do you have a dog at home that got into a block of the Ortho bait?
And these are 12 gram blocks? Are they mini blocks, as this seems to be pretty small for a rodent bait, they usually come in sizes close to one ounce.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I don't have a question about the Ortho Rodent Bait. It is 12 grams. A previous response from Dr. Matt from this same service miscalculated the dosage amount of the block. It looks like he converted grams to milligrams by multiplying by 100 instead of 1000. He reported 3 mg per block of the active ingredient, when it is actually 30 mg. Please update the answer...as I do not want another reader to take the information and believe it to be correct...and not worry...as the lethal dose is 4 mg/kg...does this make sense? Also, I do not believe I should be charged in attempt to correct a problem.
Expert:  VetTechErin replied 1 year ago.
I'm not certain the question to which you're referring! If you don't mind referencing the question URL so we can take a look at it? Without looking at the dose calculations that were done, it's hard to say if it is right or wrong. However, to use the example of 0.0025 percent of 12 grams ... If we convert 12 grams to milligrams, that is 12,000 milligrams. 0.0025 PERCENT will convert to the decimal of 0.000025. So 0.000025 * 12,000 milligrams would actually be 0.3 milligrams. So there would be 0.3 total milligrams of difethialone in a 0.0025% block that weighed 12 grams. This is about (and actually just a little bit lower) than what would be expected in a block of anticoagulant rodenticide. Difethialone also causes coagulopathy at doses of 0.02 milligrams per kilogram. It is an EXTREMELY potent 2nd generation anticoagulant rodenticide. The doses that can cause bleeding disorders that could lead to life-threatening signs is far, far lower than the "acute" LD50, which is the dose where we can see a more immediate death. What this means is that a dog that ingests a dose of 0.02 mg/kg or higher of an anticoagulant rodenticide will need vitamin K therapy, or there is a very high risk of developing coagulopathy that leads to death. A dose of 4 mg/kg is extremely high, and far above where a clinician should start treating. As a reference, here is a toxicology brief published by the ASPCA poison control who are the leaders in the field of veterinary toxicology. As you can see on table two of page three, they go through dose calculations and discuss which doses should be treated: http://www.aspcapro.org/sites/pro/files/d-dbriefoct2002.pdf Once you've got the URL up here, I will forward this to customer service. Payment is not taken unless you ask a question and received an answer which you rate as 3 stars or higher, so if you do not wish to rate an answer, you can request a refund as per site policy.
Expert:  VetTechErin replied 1 year ago.
(And once I forward that to customer service, they will be able to do that for you there as per request)
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
http://my.justanswer.com/question/guest/3dd863b1fe4a46c890c7e72de21bd8bfThe link above is to the previous answer. Just to check your units (you don't convert the decimal):
(12 gram Block) * (0.0025% Active) = 0.03 grams of active (you don't divide by 100 for percent...it is a straight calculation)
- Example: If you have a 4 gram block and 25% was active - 1 gram would be active and the remaining 3 grams would be carrier. Again straight calculation: 4 grams * 25% = 1 gram.
0.03 grams * (1000 mg/g) = 30 mg dose in entire block.The ASPCA link is very much appreciated. Thanks.
Expert:  VetTechErin replied 1 year ago.
With the dosage calculations, you do convert the decimal. The ASPCA link gives a smaller rundown of how the dose calculations are done. 4 grams times 25% when put in a decimal format would be 4 grams times 0.25, or 1 gram. 12 grams times 0.0025 percent is exactly the same mathematically as 12,000 milligrams times 0.000025 (which is the same number as 0.0025%). This is 0.3 milligrams. It will then get divided by kilograms, which is pounds divided by 2.2. The conversions to milligrams and percentages is something that trips up a lot of people, though. Google has a handy-dandy mathematical conversion effect that will do the equations for you for double checking. I did the 0.0025% of 12 grams equation here: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=0.0025%25+of+12+grams This results in the answer of 300 micrograms, or 0.3 milligrams The conversion results are here: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=300+micrograms+to+milligrams So say a ten pound dog ingested the entire 12 gram block. 10 pounds is 4.55 kilograms. The dog gets 0.3 milligrams per 4.55 kilograms or is at an effective dose of 0.066 mg/kg. This is a high enough dose where we would treat with decontamination or vitamin K. I hope this helps clear things up, and I will pass this on up to customer service!
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks for your help and explanation (s).

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