How JustAnswer Works:
  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.
Ask Nick Gordyn Your Own Question
Nick Gordyn
Nick Gordyn,
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 18
Experience:  Lead Technician/ Shop Manager at VG Auto
97706912
Type Your Dodge Question Here...
Nick Gordyn is online now
A new question is answered every 9 seconds

2002 dodge dakota 3.9 got it to start idle surges no

Customer Question

2002 dodge dakota 3.9 got it to start idle surges no acceleration
Submitted: 3 months ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

Hello, my name is ***** ***** I'm here to help get your problem solved.

Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

How high will the rpm get if you push gas?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
1200
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
then it falls on its face
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

Does it act like there is a rpm limiter such as buck/sputter at 1200 rpm? Did problem slowly get worse? Thanks.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
brought here from another garage all codes cleared i have nothing to work with on codes
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

Based on symptom alone it sounds like a clogged converter. Remove front oxygen sensor completely from exhaust and let me know if that helps. Thanks.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
new tps on it new iac on it new converter
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
complete exhaust new plugs
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

Have you done fuel pressure test?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
the guy said he has 4000.00 in it
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
fuel preasure 49
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

All sensors and tps seem to be within normal limits on scantool?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
tps .60 to 3.9 up stream o2 and down stream are 1V and unde IAT is 1.52 V temp is 168
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
vac is between 12 and 16
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
varies as surges
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
IAC 12 coolent is 199
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

Check Idle Air Control (IAC) counts. If it is near 0, suspect a leaking bottom plenum gasket on the intake. Inspect by looking down through the throttle blades with a flashlight. If oil is seen at the bottom of the intake manifold, the lower plenum cover is leaking. Beyond that it is starting to sound like a PCM problem. Surging is usually a symptom of a vacuum leak although it doesn't usually stop engine from reving. Let me know how test goes, thanks.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Idle is 480 once mtr was shut off it wouldnt start yesterday had spark and fuel spark at coil and plug wire noid lite works with injector yet no start yesterday
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
idle air control new
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

Have you checked compression?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i checked timing markes on crank and distributor no miss fires detected so i didnt check compression
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
ill check compression what should it be
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
ok just checked its to be 100
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

That is low, check every cylinder so you have cylinders to compare to. Let me know, thanks.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
aldata said 100
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
100 minimum
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

Ya, manual says 100 but it should be closer to 200 or at least that is what I have seen on this engine when doing test.

Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

So if one cylinder says 100 and other says 180 then you know there is a problem.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i know that
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

If compression is good then I don't see anything other then PCM left but I'm guessing that has already been replaced. Let me know how compression is, thanks.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
ok thanks ill get back to you
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

Sounds good.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
theres some oil residue under throttle body and compression is 150 two cylinders 1 and 4
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

What was compression on the other 6 cylinders?

Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

I mean other 4 cylinders.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
you want all six ok compression good on two and no miss fires that should rule out timing chain right
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

Not for sure but most likely, you may still have a valve problem going on too.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i never had a valve issue cause no acceleration savere miss on acceleration but this doesnt miss it just acts like it has blocked xhaust or runs out of fuel it has a complete new exhaust and fuel preasure doesnt drop on acceleration
Expert:  Dan replied 3 months ago.

I'm not sure what to think, I'd think PCM next but it has already been replaced and a expensive part to replace and hope with. I'll open question back up to see if someone else has some ideas, they will reply automatically if they can help. Thanks.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
pcm hasnt been replaced
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

Hello and welcome to JustAnswer!

Do you still need help?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
ill be back at shop on monday
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

What is cam/crank sync at idle?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
sorry daughter wrecked her car wasnt in shop yes need help yet the pcm wasnt replaced as Dan said it doesnt always start sometimes it starts and some times it doesnt but no acceleration at all falls on face with now fuel preasure loss
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

What is cam/crank sync at idle?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
there is no crank sensor or cam sensor it wont start no codes in truck brought here basket case lol cam count 16 varying 138 crank count varying on cranking
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i found crank sensor
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
sorry for disapperaring im only mechanic here multiple jobs going on i work on it in between
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

You're looking for cam/crank sync degrees.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
car does not run the crank sensor is new i just checked it the throttle pos sensor new iac new pugs new timing marks are on spark at plugs and coil fuel preasure is 49 new cat on it they have 4000 in it i got the basket case now lol
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

Does it not have spark?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
lots of spark
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

You mentioned checking timing marks. Can you elaborate on exactly what was done there?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
I put no 1 timing mark on tdc distributor on no 1 marked by the pick up plate and plug wire i tried advanceing it and retarding it no start differance
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
no 1 cylinder on top turned till it popped exhaust stroke
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i was checking map sensor my solus said discounnect wire and try to start if it starts its a bad or faulty map it doesnt start thinking maybe PCM
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

You can't move the distributor without using a scan tool to set sync with the engine is running or going through the basic initial adjustment procedure with a voltmeter. It sounds like you've randomly positioned the distributor now?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
it didnt start when came in before moveing distributor the shop closes soon can i contact you on monday we can go threw the set up for timing
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

What needs to be done is set distributor sync. I will post the procedure shortly.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
ok ill check in on monday then sorry for inconvience i wish i could stay on it this sucks on my part and yours
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

Turn the engine clockwise until the mark on the damper is at the 0 mark on the timing cover. If you go past then you need to back up a quarter turn and come back to the mark clockwise to keep timing chain slack on the correct side.

Remove the distributor cap and see where the rotor is pointing. IF it's 180 degrees from the number 1 mark on the pickup plate then turn the crank one turn and line up the mark on the damper again.

Reinstall the distributor cap and set up to backprobe on the signal wire from the pickup plate. Slightly loosen the distributor bolt.

Very slowly turn the distributor clockwise ten degrees or so and then slowly turn it counterclockwise while watching the voltmeter. When the voltage toggles from 0-5 or the other way around stop immediately and lock the distributor down. If you miss the switch point then start over.

After the engine is running it's imperative that the set sync procedure with a scan tool be done to set it to zero degrees.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
ok thank you ill try it on monday
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

You're welcome!

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
ok i lined up all the timing marks again set distributor you want me to probe the yellow wire signal wire and a ground or the ground at the distributor and rotate it from clockwise to counter clockwise setting it a 5 volts or 0 volts
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

Correct, you're turning the distributor counter clockwise until the switch point.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
it should read 5 or 0
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
probe it while its hooked up to main harness
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

You're stopping the distributor when it hits the switch point between 5 and 0.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
keeping it on 5
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 3 months ago.

You need to find the switch point and set it exactly there.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
far nothing
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i have 5v at the signal yellow wire 5v at red feed wire ground is good if i probe it i dont get any change no matter how i turn distributor
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i hooked to ground on plug and on ground directly to battery
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
the plate doesnt line up with the metal trigger under it nothing to break on
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
the crank lines up. the distributor lines up, square on plate to the right round to the left driverside rotor to the indicator on the cam sensor passenger side by the square bolt hole but the shutter is in the front of the distubitor houseing the pick up is on the rear
Expert:  John Vieira replied 3 months ago.

Hi my name is ***** ***** I will be helping you with this issue today.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
im lost on this one
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

when you did the fuel pressure test did you rev the engine to see if it dropped below 44 psi?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
stays on 49lbs doesnt run at all now
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
it wouldnt rev just dies out when it ran i was trying to set distributor cant pick up 0 to 5 volts shutter doesnt line up with pickup rotor lines up with plate mark timimg mark on tdc everything lines up except pickp and shutter. the pickup is in the back and shutter in the front
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

rotate crankshaft one full turn and recheck pickup and shutter alignment.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
popped no 1 cylinder rotor lined up with mark crank on timming mark tdc
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
im 59 yrs old been working on vehicles most of my life this ones kicking my butt its been at 3 other shops
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i tried moving distributor to hit the switch point from 0 volts to 5 volts nothing changes pulled plate and pickup on opposite side of distributor and shutter in front
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

I have been reading the earlier posts to this thread and it says you went to TDC exhaust stroke?

It should be TDC compression stroke or was that a typo?

Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

But if you went to exhaust stroke then your distributor is 180 degrees out.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i popped no1
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
pulled plug everything lines up i didnt pull distributor rotor lines up with mark on plate no 1 on cap and block cylinder line up
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
TDC lines up on crank
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i have spark at coil and the plugs noid lite blinks on inj fire fuel preasure at 49 calls for 49 + or - 5
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

yes but number 1 cylinder will be at TDC twice once at compression stroke and once at exhaust stroke.

try rotating distributor exactly 180 degrees and see what happens. It will either run or not run. after all this its a simple test.

TDC will line up with the crank twice in 1 revolution of the distributor. so just because it lined up with tdc doesn't mean it's lined up with the proper TDC.

The distributor being out 180 degrees all of that will still be there.

Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

Line the crank shaft up with TDC mark on Front cover, Remove Distributor, Rotate Crank 1 turn until its lined back up with TDC marks and reinstall Distributor at number 1 wire.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
one full revolution will put rotor on opposite side of distributor not lining up with wires on cap or mark on plate
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

I know that's why the distributor is removed before making one full revolution. and the reinstall the distributor in number 1 position.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i dont want to argue with you please bear with me i put finger over the no spark plug hole and tapped starter till it blew my finger off i backed crank up 1\4 turn and back to take any slack out of chain crank is on TDC no1 cylinder is front of block driverside no 1 wire in on passenger side of distributer lining right up with timing mark on cam sensor plate going by my ALdata diagram all is ligned up as it should be but the shutter is in the front of distributor and the semsor pic up is in the back
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
if i turn it one revolution the rotor is pointing to the drivers side of distributor not lining up with anything
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

The shutter and pickup being out 180 degrees is what makes me think timing is out 180 degrees.

they are supposed to line up at TDC cylinder one to tell the pcm of a new cycle.

personally i would pull the distributor out and rotate the rotor 180 degrees. it won't cause any harm to the engine and after all the testing done on this vehicle its worth trying anything right now.

But shutter and pickup should line up at TDC #1

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
you want me to re wire cap
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
because the plate has a mrk on to line rotor up with if i line up shutter wit pickup rotor is on opposite side of the distrubutor plate fits one way cant turn plate mark on plate lines up with not one wire
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

no just pull the distributor out and rotate it half a turn.

btw i completely agree with you on everything being lined up properly. all the information i have on firing order is saying its set up properly.

This may seem ridiculous but I read you got this car from another shop after they did a bunch of work. are the ignition wires installed in the proper order on the distributor?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
if i turn it 180 the rotor wont line up with the plug wire no 1 or the plate in the distributor or cam sensor if you look at a diagrahm of a distributor the square hole is on the passenger side and round hole is on the driverside you cant turn the plate
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
it doesnt make sense and im working on it
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

If you pull the rotor off of the distributor shaft can it be installed backwards by any chance?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
no i turned crank 360degrees nothing lines up
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
if i turn body of distributor to match mark on plate we are back to the way it was only opposite
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i replaced the plugs when it came and got it to idle for 15 min or so i tried to accelerate fell on its face fuel preasure held at 49 lbs shut it off and it hasnt started since
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
no miss fires at idle smooth
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

Do you have a scan tool to monitor cam and crank sensor data?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
but it doent start i have a verdict snapon
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
ok if i pull distributor out and mover a couple teeth and line up the rotor with the plate. then turn the base to obtain the 0 to 5v on signal wire when i tighten it down the rotor wont be anywher close to the number 1 is that the way its suppose to be i know the computer sets the timing
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i cant turn the body far enough to hit the shutter plate underneith if i move qa couple teeth it may give me enough to hit shutter
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

ya your looking for that spot that it will switch from 0 to 5v

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i must hit shutter plate to do that right
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
they said line rotor and plate up then turn distributor 10 degrees to hit switching point but its going to be alot more
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i turn the distributor now it hits the intake
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
im gonna try it i got nothing to loose
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

exactly at this point it seems like this truck has been a nightmare for you. keep me in formed on how it goes.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
no teeth just a slot
cant move it
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
casting blocks on distributor houseing hit the back of the intake
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

you can move it 180 degrees?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
then nothing lines up
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

then im all out of ideas for this truck with out physically seeing it myself. I wish i could give more assistance.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
if i turn the the crank 1\4 i can read 5 volt the truck only has 72,000 mi on it but i guess the chain jumped hard to believe but possable i guess
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
i can turn the distributor counter clock wise and hit the shutter if put on tdc i cant turn it far enough
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

It is possible but that doesn't explain how you had it idling for 15 minutes with no problems.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
idled couldnt accelerate ok if chain didnt jump how come i cant hit shutter with pickup unless i turn crank past TDC 1/4 turn
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
once i hit the timing mark i must turn counter clock wise to hit the shutter and i must hit the shutter to line up timing mark
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
distributor has a notch un houseing and hold down plate has a point on it to line up with the houseing keeping it fron turning any farther
Expert:  Nick Gordyn replied 3 months ago.

The timing cocer isnt difficult to remove to check timing.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
timing cocer ?
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
timing mark on TDC on Crank no1 lines up on distributor i cannot move distributor counter clockwise to hit the shutter with the cam sensor to hit the 0 to 5volt switch point
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
you mean timing cover my thoughts are the tentsioner is stuck putting slack in the chain causeing it to jump

Related Dodge Questions