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George H.
George H., ASE Certified Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 18390
Experience:  ASE Master 15+ years
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The heat/cool motor fan don't work using the dash buttons. I

Customer Question

The heat/cool motor fan don't work using the dash buttons. I though that it was the fan motor resister but after I used jumpers wires from the resistor to the fan motor, the motor would not come on. So I ran a wire from the battery directly to the fan motor and the fan works fine. Thee is no electricity at the connector that goes into the resister coming from the large dark blue wire which should be the hot wire. Not sure how to check out the controls for the heat/cool. The van is a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan with a 3.8L engine and the van has automatic heating and cooling.
JA: Have you checked the coolant level? Has there been any leaking from the hoses?
Customer: Yes, but the leak has been taken care of and the radiator is full.
JA: What is the make/model/year of your car?
Customer: 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT with a 3.8L engine.
JA: Are you fixing your Grand Caravan yourself? What have you tried so far?
Customer: I mention this in my first message. Check it out.
JA: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?
Customer: Nothing I can think of.
Submitted: 1 month ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  George H. replied 1 month ago.

Hello I will help,

Do you have a voltmeter to check the circuit if I guide you?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
George, I do have a voltmeter. But I don't have the van for the rest of the day. My son is using it to go to work. Will have it tomorrow.
Expert:  George H. replied 1 month ago.

I will be here tomorrow most of the day, please let me know when you are ready to test.

Thanks

Expert:  George H. replied 1 month ago.

Do you have the automatic temp system or the manual where you have 5 fan speeds?

Customer: replied 30 days ago.
George, I do have automatic temp control. Bad news, I won't have access to the van today again. I will, for sure, have the van tomorrow until 2:00 pm. Hope this will work as it is getting cold in my part of the country and need a heater. Don't know if it has anything to do with anything, but the A/C does not work. Another problem for next spring when I have to replace the compressor, along with the condenser, dryer, etc. Sorry for the inconvenience. I should have waited until I knew I would have total access to the van. Let me know if this will work out for you.
Expert:  George H. replied 30 days ago.

Ok, I will watch for you to post tomorrow. No problem, we work at your pace.

Do the controls seem to change temp and do you hear the doors move when you change them?

Any lights on the controls that are not normally on?

When you get the van back try the calibration test and see what lights stay on if it runs the test.

To run the test start the engine then press and hold both the power and recirculation buttons for 5 seconds then release. Let it run for two minutes then see what lights are on

Customer: replied 28 days ago.
I'm back. Besides the millimeter, I also have a 12v test light, if needed. I do have knowledge of electricity as I went to electronics school when I was in the Navy 55 years ago. Forgot a lot of it but still remember the basics. To answer your last questions, do the controls change temp, yes, do I hear the doors move when direction of air is changed, yes, all lights are on. I don't know if my Wi-Fi will reach out to the van so that I can chat with you as needed. If not, then there will be a delay between your question or directions as I will have to come back into the house and I don't move very fast as my knees are shot. Am checking now to see if Wi-Fi will reach the van.
Expert:  George H. replied 28 days ago.

By all lights are on do you mean all the function lights on the control are on after the test was run?

Customer: replied 28 days ago.
Expert:  George H. replied 28 days ago.

I don't think all should be on but that does indicate there are stored trouble codes that can be accessed with the factory scantool.

Try checking at the "resistor" (really a transistor) between the dark blue and the black/orange stripe wire to see if you have 12 volts with the key on. Next back probe the dark blue/light blue stripe wire with a straight pin or a paperclip so you can leave the transistor plugged in while you measure from that wire to ground and change the blower speed to see if the voltage on the wire changes, if you get no reading or change measure to the dark blue wire rather than a metal ground and see if it changes then.

If you have the 12 volts and the voltage changes then measure the motor connector with a lead in each cavity of the connector and see if you have 12 volts there with the blower speed on high.

Let me know what you find

Thanks

Expert:  George H. replied 28 days ago.

Are any of the lights on the control flashing after the test?

Customer: replied 28 days ago.
George, I have already run a jumper wire from the dark blue wire on the plug that goes to the resistor to the yellow connector on the fan motor the another jumper wire to the black connector to ground. Fan did not work. I then run a wire from the + post on the battery to the yellow connector on the fan then grounded the black wire. Fan worked. I tried replacing the fan motor resistor. Nothing.
Expert:  George H. replied 28 days ago.

OK, do you have 12 volts between the dark blue and the black orange wire?

Customer: replied 28 days ago.
No to flashing lights on controls. It will be awhile before I can do the other check.
Expert:  George H. replied 28 days ago.

OK, good on the flashing lights. Check the dark blue to the black/orange, if nothing there then check to a clean metal ground

If no voltage on the dark blue then check at the fuse. it is the 40 amp fuse #10 in the underhood box

Customer: replied 28 days ago.
For your info, I have checked the relay and fuse for the fan motor, both are OK.
Customer: replied 28 days ago.
Waiting 4 my son to return before I can check the other wires.
Customer: replied 28 days ago.
No voltage fm D/blue to black/orange or to ground.
Expert:  George H. replied 28 days ago.

OK, so you have power at the fuse but not to the dark blue wire?

Customer: replied 28 days ago.
That's right
Expert:  George H. replied 28 days ago.

That is a straight wire with two connectors from the fuse to the transistor. I will get you locations so you can check at the connectors for a burnt connection.

Expert:  George H. replied 28 days ago.

If you follow the harness from the transistor you will find C202 a short distance, open the connector and inspect it for burning or melting of the blue wire

The C200 connector is over on the other end of the instrument panel next to the body module where the harness passes through the firewall. Much harder to get to so I hope you find it at the fuse block or C202.

You cab turn the fuse block on its side so you can get to the C6 connector and check the dark blue wire there

Click here for IPM removal instructions

It is a dark blue wire in all three connectors, I can get you the pin numbering if necessary

C6 is pin 7, C200 is pin 11 and C202 is pin 1

Customer: replied 28 days ago.
OK, I will be awhile on this. Will check back with you when I finish.
Expert:  George H. replied 28 days ago.

Any evidence of animal activity under the hood? shells, debris or droppings?

I am here for 3 more hours then I go to my mother's ALF to have Sunday dinner with her (she is 98). I can check in while I am there and I am back here in about 2 hours so let me know what you find when you can check it out and if you have questions about how to access the connections

Thanks

Customer: replied 28 days ago.
When you say (IPM) is that also called the (PCM) power control module.
Expert:  George H. replied 28 days ago.

The IPM is the Integrated Power Module. Looks like the underhood fuse block but it really is a computer as well. The PCM is the engine and trans controller (computer)

Customer: replied 28 days ago.
OK I found where the IPC is located. That's as far as I got. I need my son here and he is going bowling in awhile and don't have time to finish the troubleshooting. Tomorrow I have to take the van into a garage for a safety checkup and won't get it back in time to continue with the van. Tuesday will be the next time I will have the whole day to work on the van. Now, do I have to disconnect all the wire connecters from the bottom of the fuse box? What is the proper way to use to get the clips where you can the slide the clip forward. I broke the locking pin off of the one that I tried to get off.
Expert:  George H. replied 28 days ago.

That is fine, I will be online Tuesday.

You don't need to disconnect the connectors. You can find #6 and the blue wire and see if it connects to the blower fuse. I would start at the other end and look at the connector up behind the glove box and see if you have 12 volts to the blue wire there then go to the fuse block if it does not as you have to remove the battery to get to the bottom of the box

Customer: replied 27 days ago.
I will be going back to work on this problem at 12:00 pm or 12:30 pm after my son gets back from bowling. If I may, I just had a Safety & Reliability Evaluation done yesterday. One of the items they found was a bad motor mount. I know that there are 4 mounts, but they didn't say front, rear, left or right but described it as the "Core Support Engine Mount." Is it possible, on this session, that you could tell me which mount such as Front, Rear, Left, Right it is?
Expert:  George H. replied 27 days ago.

Core support should be the one up front by the radiator.

Customer: replied 27 days ago.
Thank you. Be back with you later.
Expert:  George H. replied 27 days ago.

You might check with them to be sure that is what they saw, it is the front mount if you were looking it up on a parts site.

I will watch for your post later on.

Customer: replied 26 days ago.
Sorry I didn't get back with you. I thought my son was off today. He does the most of the work on the van as I can't get around very well. I just guide him in doing the work. I will be back with you tomorrow for sure. Some in the morning I hope, then in the afternoon. Thanks for the info on the motor mount. Will have to call and find out what motor mount he was talking about as I can't find an info on what he called the bad motor mount.
Expert:  George H. replied 26 days ago.

Ok, will be here tomorrow

Customer: replied 25 days ago.
George, to answer your post on Nov 6 at 03:22. I have already checked for voltage at the dark/blue connector that plugs into the fan motor resister. Did not have voltage. I then checked, after removing the fan motor fuse, the male prongs by placing a test light on each prong. Tested positive for voltage/current. I then ran a jumper wire from the positive post of the battery to the yellow prong in the plug of the fan motor then ran a jumper wire from the black wire/prong to ground. Fan worked. As I see it, there is a break in the wiring from the fuse box to the plug that connects into the resistor unless the wire goes into the control panel for heat/cooling before it goes on to the resistor. Just my thoughts.
Expert:  George H. replied 25 days ago.

Correct, that is why I directed you to check the blue wire at C202, C200 and C6 and provided the locations for those.

I would start with C202 as it is easy to get to.m Everything is to be plugged in and you back probe the connector with a straight pin or paperclip so you make contact. If you measure 12 volts on one side but not the other then open the connector to find the burned connection and repair. If no voltage at C202 then move to the fuse block and check C6. You won't have voltage to check there as you have to remove the battery to get to it so a visual inspection is best then use the ohmmeter to check from the connector to the fuse. C200 is very hard to get to so leave that for last.

I also asked if there is any evidence of animal activity?

Customer: replied 25 days ago.
Well I'm ready to go back to work on this problem.
Didn't get your reaction on my last post?
Expert:  George H. replied 24 days ago.

Here is a copy of what I posted above

Correct, that is why I directed you to check the blue wire at C202, C200 and C6 and provided the locations for those.

I would start with C202 as it is easy to get to.m Everything is to be plugged in and you back probe the connector with a straight pin or paperclip so you make contact. If you measure 12 volts on one side but not the other then open the connector to find the burned connection and repair. If no voltage at C202 then move to the fuse block and check C6. You won't have voltage to check there as you have to remove the battery to get to it so a visual inspection is best then use the ohmmeter to check from the connector to the fuse. C200 is very hard to get to so leave that for last.

I also asked if there is any evidence of animal activity?

Customer: replied 24 days ago.
No, no animal activity. I understand what you mean when you talk abour a connector being C202 or C200, but I don’t have a schematic showing where those wires are and there is nothing in or on the fuse block to denote those connector. While waiting for you to reply, forgot that I needed to refresh the page, I did a few other test. Don’t know if one of these is what you were referring to. I first , while the battery was installed, and the fuse was out, I ran two jumpers from the fuse connectors, one for the hot wire and one for the ground. Ran them both to the fan plug. Fan did not work. I then checked the dark blue wire that runs from the fuse to the plug that goes into the resistor for voltage. Nothing. Next with the fuse still removed, I ran a jumper from the hot connector where the fuse would be and connected that to the yellow connector that goes to the fan motor. I then ran a jumper from the black wire on the fan motor plug to ground. Fan worked. And for a last test, I plugged the connector that goes into the resistor then checked the hot wire connector from the resistor that goes to the fan plug and run a jumper from the ground connector on the resistor plug, again that goes to the fan motor. Grounded the jumper and the fan did not run. To me, it looks like the dark blue wire, hot wire, from the fuse to the resistor is bad. Hope this makes some sense and can follow what I did.
Expert:  George H. replied 24 days ago.

I included the diagram for C6 location above, I also said to follow the wiring from the resistor connector to the C202 and said that C200 is to the left of the steering column behind the body control module mounted there.

I don't know if the fan not working with jumpers was due to your hookup but not having 12 volts at the blue wire when you do at the fuse is the problem we are working on now.

You were able to run the fan, that means you must work on getting power and ground to itn which means troubleshooting/tracing the dark blue wire.

As I posted above and before that and before that you do have a problem with the dark blue wire connections so you have to trace it.

Let me know what you find as you trace the wire

Thanks

Customer: replied 24 days ago.
George, I am reluctant to say any more. I know you maybe getting perturbed with me. Anyway, in reference to your post of 11/6 @ 12:00, I found the schematic you were talking about. I was able to find C6 Pin 7, it was not burned. As for C200 and C202. I followed the harness from the resister looking for C202. The harness disappears behind the center console and was not able to find C202. I have tried to find where the harness from the fuse block goes through the firewall with no luck. Still looking for C200 on the inside of the firewall. It is going to get dark in a little while, and I am frustrated with this problem. As soon as I am able to find these two connectors and check for a burned wire, I will get back with you. Thanks for bearing with we on this problem.
Expert:  George H. replied 24 days ago.

The C202 connector should be close to the center of the heater box. Can you pull the controls out?

I am sorry if I sounded harsh, I don't mean to be but I did post the information days ago to trace the blue wire. An option you have if you think the C6 connector is good is to splice a wire at that point onto the dark blue wire and run it inside to where the dark blue wire connects to the resistor. At this point I would splice one on so I could reinstall the fuse block and battery and see if you have 12 volts coming out of the fuse block. The problem may be the connections inside the box.

Let me know what you find

Thanks

Customer: replied 20 days ago.
George, I was able to find C202. It is no were to be seen. Did find C200. Even if I did find the burned wire, I think it would be a real job to splice in a new wire. I am just going to splice in a new wire at the fuse box, C6, and run it to the fan motor resister. As I see it, that will be the easiest way to fix this. I have a question I don't know if you can answer or not. I have been charged twice for your service. I was under the impression that I would pay $24 for the session. I have been charged $25 on the 11th and again with a pending charge of $24. I want to thank you for your service and understand in this situation. I was a little confused when you told me about the "C" connectors & numbers. Took me a bit but I finally figured what you were telling me. I was looking at a schematic of the wiring in the manual I have but it didn't have the numbers for the connectors. Just showed the colors of the wiring. I will wait for your post before I close out this session and will give you a A+ for your service. Jimmy Broadwater
Expert:  George H. replied 20 days ago.

I don't have access to your account information. Contact customer service for help with that.

Have you run a temporary wire to be sure that overlaying a permanent wire will solve the whole issue?

Customer: replied 20 days ago.
I did run a jumper wire from the + battery post to the yellow wire on the connector going to the fan motor. Use a jumper to ground. The motor worked. I have not done the same for connecting the hot wire to the fan motor resister, Dark Blue, then plugging the fan motor connector into the resistor. I will use the original resistor to see if the fan works. If not, I bought a new one thinking that was the problem as I had it into the Chrysler dealer and that is what they said was wrong. Will let you know what the outcome is.
Expert:  George H. replied 20 days ago.

I don't know what the yellow wire has to do with it, the dark blue is the power to the motor.

Try the bypass from the fuse block and let me know what happens.

Thanks