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Tom
Tom, ASE Master Certified
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 864
Experience:  Chrysler Level 3 Technician, Chrysler Training Instructor
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I have a 2009 dodge grand caravan SXT 3.8. Need help cant

Customer Question

I have a 2009 dodge grand caravan SXT 3.8. Need help cant get break lights working.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

Hi my name is ***** ***** I'll try to help with your brake lamps. The brake lamps are not hard wired from the switch to the bulbs themselves like they are on older vehicles for many years. On this van the brake switch is just an input to the TIPM (totally integrated power module) which is basically a body control computer. It is likely that your switch is fine and everything else that you mentioned, but there are a few more items in the circuit that might be at fault or a ground connection may be the culprit. I'm posting a wiring diagram to refer to, you may need to zoom in on it to see the wire color descriptions more clearly.

The wire colors that you mentioned don't coincide with the diagram so I hope we have the correct model year.

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

Let me know for sure that it is a 2009. The wire colors going to the brake switch are

CAVITY

CIRCUIT

FUNCTION

1 L51 20WT/DG BRAKE LAMP SWITCH OUTPUT

2 A108 20LG/RD FUSED B(+)

3 F941 20PK/LG FUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN-START)

4 B16 20LB/DG BRAKE SIGNAL 2

5 Z908 20BK/YL GROUND

6 B15 20DG/WT BRAKE SIGNAL 1

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

connector view posted

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
My mistake IT is a 2006 Grand Caravan SXT not a 2009, sorry (took it of a very hard to read door sticker, correct date from registration)
Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

Ok that will probably make a difference. Let me pull up the 06

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

Does the high mount brake lamp work?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No the High mount does not work
Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

Ok, do you have an ohm meter?

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

want to check the ground circuit form the black/orange wire to ground. Should be as close to 0 ohms as possible.

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

correct connector pinout

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

BRAKE LAMP SWITCH - BLACK 6 WAY

1 A103 18GY/RD FUSED B(+)

2 L50 18WT/TN (GAS)BRAKE LAMP SWITCH OUTPUT

3 V30 20VT/WT (GAS)S/C BRAKE SWITCH OUTPUT

4 V32 20VT/YL (GAS)S/C SUPPLY

5 Z429 20BK/OR GROUND

6 B29 20DG/WT SECONDARY BRAKE SWITCH SIGNAL

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

make sure you have 12v at the #1 pin gray/red wire

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ignition switch off
black/orange wire to ground = 0 ohms
Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

ok good.

12v at pin1 ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Got 12v at pin 1
Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

L50 circuit goes from brake switch to high mount bulb and splits to the BCM (body control module). See if you get 12v from pin#2 with pedal pressed please

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Pin #2 got nothing
Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

ok there's the hangup. The switch may just not be positioned well for the brake lever to move it. You could remove it, but plug it back in to check its travel first to make sure the switch electrically works.

If no power transfers to the pin#2 circuit it can't power the high mount or send signal to the bcm to run the other brake lights.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
took it off reinstalled same results Also removed operated it manually (slowly) no results
Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

See if lights work with it not mounted but plugged in and operate it with your finger.

Service info says it can only be adjusted once. I will post all the service info procedure for replacing it. I know you have replaced it already, but I think the adjustment is the problem based on the good circuit tests that we just did.

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

INSTALLATION

CAUTION:Do not reuse the original brake lamp switch. The switch can only be adjusted once. That is during initial installation of the switch. If the switch is not adjusted properly or has been removed for some service, a new switch must be installed and adjusted.

1.Mount and adjust the NEW brake lamp switch using the following procedure:

a.Connect the wiring connector to the switch and latch the locking tab.

b.Install the switch in its bracket by aligning the index tab on the switch with the slot in the mounting bracket.

c.When the switch is fully seated in its bracket, rotate the switch clockwise approximately 30° to lock the switch into place.

d.With the brake pedal in the fully released position, move the lever on the back of the brake lamp switch from the angled non-adjusted position to the full vertical position as shown. This will adjust the brake lamp switch to the vehicle.

Figure 1 - Adjustment Lever Movement

2.Install silencer panel below steering column knee blocker.

3.Reconnect the battery negative terminal.

4.Check the stop lamps to verify they are operating properly and not staying on when the pedal is in the released position.

5.Road test the vehicle to ensure proper operation of the brakes including ABS and speed control (if equipped).

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

switch picture

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Tried operating it with finger same results nothing
Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

was the adjustment lever ever moved?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I followed the install procedure when I installed the new switch - Nothing - that's why I contacted you all.. This thing is driving me crazy!!
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Not since I removed it to manually operate it.I will go get a another new switch and start over this will take a few hours as I am close to nothing. I will leave this connection open if that's ok and get back with you when I return.
Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

No problem. I understand your frustration. Based on your finding of no power to the #2 pin with that switch pushed in, the lights will never get power. It has to be a bad switch or the adjustment didn't connect to the pedal correctly. Service info is adamant about the adjustment being correct and I one time shot. Not saying you aren't capable just trying to be thorough and not miss anything. I'll post the ohm tests for the switch first one is for it not plunged and second is button plunged.

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

ohm test 1

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

ohm test 2

Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

If you do not achieve the results as listed in both figures, the switch is faulty and must be replaced. Refer to Removal And Installation in this section.

If the switch is found to be operating properly, it may be misadjusted. Do not reinstall the switch, replace it

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
That's how I tested it first time around. I unplugged the wiring connector and checked the switch only, the switch works fine just like your diagram shows. I checked the wiring connector for current Pin #1 and it was hot (12v). I plugged the connector back into switch and pressed the brake and checked for current on Pin#2 , got nothing. That's when I only removed the switch to try manually operate the switch (not so smart I guess) when test revealed still no current on Pin#2 I called it quits needing additional assistance.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
could this be a body control module issue?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
If current is going through switch what component does does Pin#2 go to next?
Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

No, not body computer issue if there is no power on pin 2. Pin 2 is the signal to the body computer to know when the brake pedal is pushed so it will power the lights. The wire for pin#2 goes to the BCM and also branches of to power just the high mount stop lamp. If the high mount stop lamp worked then the problem is in the bcm or the white/tan wire coming form pin2 of brake switch. Since you have no power at pin#2 and both regular brake lights and high mount don't work, it has to be in the brake switch based on the readings you have. Unless bulbs are bad at the high mount, but I assume you have either checked or replaced them with the others.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Brand new switch installed... nothing still no brake lights Right back where I started...NEXT step
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
High mount brake light still does not work..
Expert:  Tom replied 1 year ago.

I'm out of ideas at this point. I'll opt out so another expert can hopefully have other ideas.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Update Pin 5 on brake switch is suppose to be a ground. When testing I noticed it reads open not grounded. I will check it out. Keep you fingers crossed I might get lucky, anything's possible
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
didn't do it . oh well