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-Brad-
-Brad-, Dodge Dealership Tech
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 5570
Experience:  16 Yrs Chrysler/Dodge Technician. ASE Master Certified(L-1)
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2002 Dodge RAM 1500 4x4 crank, no start problem.

Customer Question

Need help with a 2002 Dodge RAM 1500 4x4 problem: Crank, no start problem. 2002 ram 1500 4.7

Been working on it a couple days. truck just died at my house luckily. battery good, fuses and relays good. no spark. It started one time while testing things but then died again. I am thinking crank sensor or pcm failure. after removing battery for hours and trying to start. holding the odometer button and turning the key, panel reads a c-code of aa 01 "PCM messages not received". Does this mean the pcm is shot? Would a code reader give me any more detail than reading the dash?


Make: Dodge
Model: RAM 1500 4x4
Year: 2002
Engine: 4.7

Already Tried:
tested battery checked fuses and relays shot starter fluid in intake- nothing tried an inline spark tool - no spark not sure if these work on this vehicle unplugged and re-plugged the pcm

Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.

Welcome to JustAnswer. I'm a 15 Yr Dodge Dealership technician, and the first thing we need to do is try and get some codes.. Can you do this:

Without starting the engine, cycle the ignition ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ONWITHIN5 seconds. Where the odometer is should now be displayed "p-codes" (ie. P1234) - Can I have these codes?

 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I tried this and nothing happened. Is this different that what I already did? I turned on the key with the odometer reset held down. That is how I got the c- code aa 01

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.

The key cycle is how to self retrieve codes, and not the odometer reset... The aa01 code means nothing.. I will need a P code.. Can you try again? If nothing then I will need for you to grab a multimeter so we can test a few circuits..

Brad

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I tried again with no display other than the odometer reading.

Would taking the battery off while having it tested for hours have cleared any codes?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.

Yes disconnecting the battery likely DID erase the codes.. Since you don't have any spark can you disconnect the camshaft sensor located here and tell me if it starts.. It will have a long crank time, maybe 10 sec but see if it starts.
2002 Dodge <a href=Ram 1500 camshaft sensor"/>

Under the front of the passenger head... If it doesn't start check for 5v on the Orange wire at camshaft sensor connector.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

20 second start attempt....nothing

5.75v at orange wire

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.

Ok since it didn't start that would leave the PCM or crank sensor.. Can you check the 12v and ground to PCM?
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Powertrain Control Module C1

CAVCIRCUITFUNCTION
1K93 18TN/OR (3.7L/4.7L)COIL DRIVER NO. 3
2Y135 18LG/BKFUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN-START)
3K94 18TN/LG (3.7L/4.7L)COIL DRIVER NO. 4
4K4 18BK/LBSENSOR GROUND
5K96 18TN/LB (3.7L/4.7L)COIL DRIVER NO. 6
6T24 18BR/YLPARK/NEUTRAL POSITION SWITCH SENSE (T41)
7K91 18TN/RD (3.7L/4.7L)COIL DRIVER NO. 1
7K19 18BK/GY (5.9L)IGNITION COIL NO. 1 DRIVER
8K24 18GY/BKCRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
9K98 18LB/RD (4.7L)COIL DRIVER NO. 8
10K39 18GY/RDIDLE AIR CONTROL NO. 3 DRIVER
11K60 18YL/BKIDLE AIR CONTROL NO. 2 DRIVER
12S28 18YL/BK (3.7L/4.7L)POWER STEERING PRESSURE SWITCH SIGNAL
13A41 14YL (3.7L)IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN-START)
13G113 18OR (4.7L/5.9L)PTO SWITCH SENSE
14K77 18BR/WT (4.7L/5.9L) (MANUAL TRANSFER CASE)TRANSFER CASE POSITION SENSOR INPUT
15K21 18BK/RDINTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE SENSOR SIGNAL
16K2 18TN/BKENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURE SENSOR SIGNAL
17K7 18OR5 VOLT SUPPLY
18K44 18TN/YLCAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
19K59 18VT/BKIDLE AIR CONTROL NO. 4 DRIVER
20K40 18BR/WTIDLE AIR CONTROL NO. 1 DRIVER
21K95 18TN/DG (3.7L/4.7L)COIL DRIVER NO. 5
22A14 18RD/WTFUSED B(+)
23K22 18OR/DBTHROTTLE POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
24K41 18BK/DGOXYGEN SENSOR 1/1 SIGNAL
25K141 18TN/WTOXYGEN SENSOR 1/2 SIGNAL
26K241 18LG/RD (CALIFORNIA)OXYGEN SENSOR 2/1 SIGNAL
27K1 18DG/RDMANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE SENSOR SIGNAL
28--
29K341 18TN/WT (CALIFORNIA)OXYGEN SENOR 2/2 SIGNAL
30--
31Z82 14BK/TNGROUND
32Z81 14BK/TNGROUND

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE C1 - BLACK 32 WAY

Check pins 22 for 12v and pins 31-32 for ground...

Let me know,
Brad

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

yes, those check out

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
HI Darrin,

Ok great!!! Since we don't have a scantool I would suggest either borrowing a scantool to see if you can retrieve some codes or replacing the crankshaft sensor and see if it starts..

Let me know,
Brad
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

no need to test wires at crankshaft sensor?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
HI Darrin,

You can test for 5v but other than that you will need a scantool or labscope to check the crankshaft sensor.. That's why I said either see if you can get some codes out of the system or try a crankshaft sensor..

Let me know,
Brad
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

bought a code reader....it says "no codes"

I am putting in a new crank position sensor

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
HI Darrin,

Thanks for the update....

Let me know what happens,
Brad
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I may have miss-diagnosed the core problem. I thought it was spark, because I bought an inline spark tester but I am not sure they work correctly on these coil on plug systems. Also, I eliminated fuel as core problem because I had my wife spray starter fluid in the air box and tried to start it.

Anyway, I put in the new crank sensor...did not start.

Just for giggles (although I am not laughing much), I tried starter fluid while she turned the key. It sputtered, crackled and coughed like it wanted to start...but would not start.

I have overhauled many vehicles in the past, but have not so much as changed a spark plug in in the last 15years. Getting very frustrating.

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.

If it make's you feel better... It's my fault for not double checking with you. But I was picking up where you left off the diag and I thought you didn't have spark.. That is my first lines to anyone with a no start.. "Have you checked for fuel or spark".. Hey, it's ok!!!

Now that we know that it did try to start now we can start moving up the fuel chart... Ok so now you will need to either reach up around to the top of the tank and see if the pump has 12v and ground.. And if it does then you will need to drop the tank to replace it.. Here's a little hint.. If it's the pump, beat on the bottom of the tank and see if you hear it come on.. I do it all the time just to get the vehicle in from where the rollback dropped it behind our shop to my rack.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

before I do that, a couple thoughts.

1- I checked the fuel bleed valve on the injectors at the engine...It has pressure in it. Shouldn't that mean the pump it working

2- I can hear what I thought was the pump under the hood when the key is turned.

2- shouldn't it have run, even a little on the starter fluid?

perhaps I am thinking the worst, like timing chain/belt slip.

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
HI Darrin,

Do you know for sure if it has spark or not?

Brad
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Not if it could make what sounds like an attempted start on compression. It really pinged and danced like it was trying to start. but did not Run. Not even for a couple seconds.

Can I poor gas in the butterfly? I have the breather off.

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
HI Darrin,

Does the engine sound the same as it always has when you try and start it? And starting fluid should get it to start if you spray it into the throttlebody... You might need to remove the big breather in front of the throttlebody..

Let me know,'
Brad
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I feel like I am starting over.....crap!

When the truck stopped...I tried repeatedly to get it to start...9 times nothing, one time it started and ran but tried to die at idle. I kept it running with some throttle for a half a minute or so. then it dies and has never done that again.

while checking fuses, battery, using inline spark tool, and spraying fuel in the carb, I have attempted to start it 50 times with ZERO attempted start noises.

Now after changing the crank sensor, it "sputtered". A loud rough pinging sputter, only with the starting fluid spray.

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
HI Darrin,

If you have sprayed it too much it will flood it.. Can you remove a spark plug and see if it's flooded?

Brad
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

plug is dry.

tank appears to have two wires and a breather coming out of it.

I banged on it with a hammer...did you say I should be able to "hear the pump"....easily?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
Hi Darrin,

If you turn the key on you should be able to hear it whine for 2 sec..

Brad
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I can't hear it running, but my hearing is not the best.

If I have fuel at the bleed valve on the engine, shouldn't the pump be working?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
Hi Darrin,

Do you have alot of psi at fuel rail? Can you stick the spark in the end of the coil and lay the spark plug on the head or anything metal and try and start it.. Tell me if you have spark..

Brad
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I hit the bleed at the fuel rail yesterday and it had pressure. I hit the bleed earlier today, and it had pressure. I hit it just now and it has nothing. And I no longer hear noise under the hood like I used to hear when I turned the key.

There is NO spark at the plug.

I hope your Monday is going better than mine!

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.

So now we have no spark and no fuel.. Is the battery still fully charged? Can you remove the ASD relay and tell me if the Pins 30 and 85 has 12v from the fuse 2. Now see if pin 86 has ground from the PCM..
Diagnosing a 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 problem

Let me know,
Brad

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

relay #57, engine control relay/asd ?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.

Here is a pic:
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 integrated power module

Brad

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

30 and 85 are hot

86 to battery does not register anything do I need to measure to the pcm?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
Hi Darrin,,

Yes if you can check that wire to PCM to verify the wire is good will be great. Also remove the TIPM and disconnect the connectors to see if any are corroded..

Let me know,
Brad
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

You want me to take all the connections off of the fuse box and check them.

Before I do that lets check the wire to the pcm while it is still connected. what plug and pin is it on in the pcm?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.

To check the ASD control wire, you will need to locate the Gray connector at the PCM and remove it and locate pin 12 Dark Green/Orange.. the plug it back in and see if it is sending out 12v.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I have gotten lost here.

currently I have the tipm and the battery disconnected. I thought I was looking for a wire to test from the tipm to the pcm for ground?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.

Well let's check both:
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 integrated power module C6

CAVCIRCUITFUNCTION
1--
2Y133 14RD/ORFUSED B(+)
3--
4A142 16DG/ORAUTO SHUT DOWN RELAY OUTPUT
5--
6--
7--
8--
9--
10--
11--
12A31 14BK/WTFUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN-ACC)
13--
14T16 14RD (EARLY BUILD)TRANSMISSION CONTROL RELAY OUTPUT
14T16 16RD (LATE BUILD)TRANSMISSION CONTROL RELAY OUTPUT
15--

INTEGRATED POWER MODULE C6 - 15 WAY

See if the Dark green/Orange has 12v when key on..

2002 Dodge Ram 1500 integrated power module c6 15 way

CAVCIRCUITFUNCTION
1T40 14BRSTARTER MOTOR RELAY OUTPUT
2V3 16BR/WTWIPER RELAY LOW SPEED OUTPUT
3Y105 20BR/RDFUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN-ACC)
4F235 18RDFUSED B(+)
5--
6Y171 18WT/DGLEFT LOW BEAM DRIVER
7Y168 18WT/LBRIGHT HIGH BEAM DRIVER
8--
9- (EARLY BUILD)-
9A64 16DG/WT (LATE BUILD)FUEL PUMP RELAY OUTPUT
10--
11K51 18DB/YLAUTO SHUT DOWN RELAY CONTROL
12K127 18DB/OR (CALIFORNIA)OXYGEN SENSOR DOWNSTREAM RELAY CONTROL
13--
14--
15Y170 18WT/LGLEFT HIGH BEAM DRIVER
16Y153 18DB/RDADJUSTABLE PEDAL RELAY OUTPUT
17--
18--
19- (EARLY BUILD)-
19K31 18BR (LATE BUILD)FUEL PUMP RELAY CONTROL
20L39 18LB (FOG LAMPS)FOG LAMP RELAY OUTPUT
21A41 16YLFUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN-START)
22Y169 18WT/TNRIGHT LOW BEAM DRIVER
23T24 18BR/YLPARK/NEUTRAL POSITION SWITCH SENSE (T41)
24E1 20TNFUSED B(+)
25A141 18DG/WTFUSED AUTO SHUT DOWN RELAY OUTPUT
26--

INTEGRATED POWER MODULE C7 - 26 WAY

See if pin 11 has a ground when you start it..

Let me know,
Brad

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I have removed the connections on the tipm, they look fine to me. I have sprayed them with electronics cleaner. I am ready to test the wire from the tipm to the pcm. I do not know what wire to test. I am assuming I am doing an ohm check on the wire since the tipm is dismantled.

I cannot include images....that is why the message crashed

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.

Ok now here is the TIPM and PCM connections..
TIPM:
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 integrated power module C7

CAVCIRCUITFUNCTION
1T40 14BRSTARTER MOTOR RELAY OUTPUT
2V3 16BR/WTWIPER RELAY LOW SPEED OUTPUT
3Y105 20BR/RDFUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN-ACC)
4F235 18RDFUSED B(+)
5--
6Y171 18WT/DGLEFT LOW BEAM DRIVER
7Y168 18WT/LBRIGHT HIGH BEAM DRIVER
8--
9- (EARLY BUILD)-
9A64 16DG/WT (LATE BUILD)FUEL PUMP RELAY OUTPUT
10--
11K51 18DB/YLAUTO SHUT DOWN RELAY CONTROL
12K127 18DB/OR (CALIFORNIA)OXYGEN SENSOR DOWNSTREAM RELAY CONTROL
13--
14--
15Y170 18WT/LGLEFT HIGH BEAM DRIVER
16Y153 18DB/RDADJUSTABLE PEDAL RELAY OUTPUT
17--
18--
19- (EARLY BUILD)-
19K31 18BR (LATE BUILD)FUEL PUMP RELAY CONTROL
20L39 18LB (FOG LAMPS)FOG LAMP RELAY OUTPUT
21A41 16YLFUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN-START)
22Y169 18WT/TNRIGHT LOW BEAM DRIVER
23T24 18BR/YLPARK/NEUTRAL POSITION SWITCH SENSE (T41)
24E1 20TNFUSED B(+)
25A141 18DG/WTFUSED AUTO SHUT DOWN RELAY OUTPUT
26--

INTEGRATED POWER MODULE C7 - 26 WAY


Find Pin 11 at TIPM and ohm it to the PCM here:
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Powertrain Control Module C3

CAVCIRCUITFUNCTION
1C13 18DB/ORA/C COMPRESSOR CLUTCH RELAY CONTROL
2--
3K51 18DB/YLAUTO SHUT DOWN RELAY CONTROL
4V36 18TN/RDSPEED CONTROL VACUUM SOLENOID CONTROL
5V35 18LG/RDSPEED CONTROL VENT SOLENOID CONTROL
6--
7K73 18YL/BK (3.7L)KNOCK SENSOR NO. 1 SIGNAL
8K199 18BR/VTOXYGEN SENSOR 1/1 HEATER CONTROL
9K127 18DB/OROXYGEN SENSOR DOWNSTREAM RELAY CONTROL
10K106 18WT/DGLEAK DETECTION PUMP SWITCH SENSE
11V32 18YL/RDSPEED CONTROL SUPPLY
12A142 16DG/ORAUTO SHUT DOWN RELAY OUTPUT
13T6 18OR/WT (5.9L)OVERDRIVE OFF SWITCH SENSE
13T10 18YL/DG (A/T EXCEPT 5.9L)TORQUE MANAGEMENT REQUEST SENSE
14K107 18ORLEAK DETECTION PUMP SOLENOID CONTROL
15K118 18PK/YLBATTERY TEMPERATURE SENSOR SIGNAL
16K299 18BR/WT (CALIFORNIA)OXYGEN SENSOR 2/1 HEATER CONTROL
16K299 18BR/WT (EXCEPT CALIFORNIA)OXYGEN SENSOR 1/2 HEATER CONTROL
17--
18K74 18BR/VT (3.7L)KNOCK SENSOR NO. 2 SIGNAL
19K31 18BRFUEL PUMP RELAY CONTROL
20K52 18PK/BKEVAPORATIVE EMISSION SOLENOID CONTROL
21--
22--
23--
24K29 18WT/PKBRAKE SWITCH SENSE
25K125 18WT/DBGENERATOR SOURCE
26G8 18LB/BKFUEL LEVEL SENSOR SIGNAL
27D21 18PKSCI TRANSMIT
28--
29D20 18LGSCI RECEIVE
30D25 18VT/BRPCI BUS
31--
32V37 18RD/LGSPEED CONTROL SWITCH SIGNAL

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE C3 - GRAY 32 WAY

Find pin 3 which is Dark blue and yellow and ohm that wire.. If less then 5 ohms it's good.. If good then hook it up and turn key on and see if you have ground at tipm.. To test ground clip test light to positive battery post and probe the wire..

Let me know,
Brad

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

there are 3 26 pin connectors at the blue grey and green. can you tell me which one it is?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
I'm very sorry,, it's gray
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

only the blue connector at the fuse box has an 11 pin in it. grey and green are blank in that spot. are you sure the c7 is not the blue one?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.

Hi Darrin,

I went and got a picture..
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 integrated power module rear view

Pin 3 should be Dark Blue/Yellow..

Brad

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

OK...tested fine I am guessing that the c7 picture is backwards (like from the wire side) but I took off the boot and the wire was blue with a yellow stripe.

the next test I do not understand you..

do you want me to put tpim back together then do the test?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
HI Darrin,

Yes plug the TIPM back in and trim some of the plastic coating back and see if it has ground..

Let me know,
Brad
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

trim plastic coating back where?

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
About 2-3 inches down from the connector.. Just anywhere that you can access easily..
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I do not see a ground connection anywhere on this thing. I took a bolt off that had two positive cables attaching to the box. I just assumed the ground side all came from the wireing harness

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
Hi Darrin,

To check for a ground clip the test light to positive and probe the trimmed wire while cranking. It should flash if the wire has ground..

Brad
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

tipm is back together. On the tipm there are two red wires going to a bolt. the wires come from the pos battery, and the alternator. I do not see a ground wire on the tipm.

Expert:  -Brad- replied 2 years ago.
Can you clip the test light to positive... Then test the wire with the test light? While cranking it should light up when trying to start it.

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