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sprinkles08
sprinkles08, Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep master tech
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 16922
Experience:  ASE Master and Advanced Certified, Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep Master Certified, Trans and Hybrid Specialist
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dodge dakota: 2002 dodge dakota I have no tail lights dash

Customer Question

2002 dodge dakota I have no tail lights dash lights. I confirmed that there is no power to "park lamp relay" fuse, I checked slot 30, 86, 87, 85 (fuse is good), I confirmed that there is no power to the 5amp "panel dim" #9 fuse (fuse is good), I confirmed that there is power to the 20amp "park lamp" #4 fuse (fuse is good). I realize there must be a connection issue, but where do I look?? Is it behind that fuse box, do I look in the engine bay, is it at the bulbs themselves.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 1 year ago.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

Welcome to Ja. My name is Leon your online tech

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

give me a few minutes to check into the wiring schematics and read your work done so far and see what i can come up with.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

OK almost done thank you for waiting

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

what size engine do you have

Customer :

it's the 6 cyl 3.9litre. Two nights ago my right blinker started signaling all on its own for a bit then stopped, I then lost dash, tail, signals, hazards. All I had was headlights and brake lights. I changed the 20amp haz/signal fuse in the engine bay fuse box, that got my hazards and signals back, all the other fuses are good.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

so the 20 amp fuse still ok?

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

you have a volt/ohm meter?

Customer :

yes I still have hazards and signals so the 20amp fuse is still ok. I put a test light on the fuses and the two I mentioned have no power to them. I think if I test both sides of the fuse and only one side lights up the fuse is blown, but there is power to that fuse, on the 5amp fuse #9 for the "panel dim", which sends power to the dashboard lights, it's a new fuse and niether side lights up.

Customer :

I have a test light, and a voltmeter

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

# 9 and what number is the other?

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

are you at the junction fuse block on the side of dash drivers side?

Customer :

no i'm inside, but there's no number slot for it, it's the "park lamp relay", its a larger fuse with 5 prongs and each prong on the back of the fuse is numbered #30, 85,86,87

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

Full Size Image

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

like this one to make sure we are in the same area

Customer :

were in the same area yes

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok hold while i gather a test for you.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

Do you own a volt/ohm meter?

Customer :

yes, I have a voltmeter and a test light

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

at the number 9 you have no power to either side of fuse correct? This is impotant so i can help you to the power source from the wiring schematic

Customer :

correct no power at fuse #9 (panel dim), it sends the power to the dashboard. I can live without dashboard lights, my main concern is tail lights. THERE IS POWER to fuse #4 "park lamp" and the fuse is good

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok thank you for this information hold please

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

fuse # 9 is a five amp fuse correct

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

Full Size Image

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

number # 9 slot is lower right bottom

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

Full Size Image

Customer :

correct fuse 9 is a 5amp fuse for the dash, and you can see the park lamp relay at the top. no power to the relay or fuse 9

Customer :

but there is power to the 20amp fuse #4 which is for the park lamp, but they don't work

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok thank you going futher back from this point to see what gives this power to these circuits hold please

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok at the parking lamp relay slot 30 see if you have power there 12 volts

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

trying to get you the cavity legend for you hold

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

Full Size Image

Customer :

I checked that already, no power to it. In my opening comment I said that I had checked slot 30, 85,86,87. I know the fuse is good because the horn relay, which sits right next to it works, and they are identical fuses so I switched them and the horn still worked.

Customer :

So it looks like if there is power to fuse #4 but not at the relay then there is a bad connection between them. So my return question is how does this relate to me losing signals and hazards initially then replacing a fuse in the main engine bay fuse box to restore the signal lights......if there is a bad connection between #4 and the relay, which are in the same fuse box???

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

thank you for clearing this up. yes there is two fuses in the main power distribution box under hood.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

Full Size Image

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

you do have headlights correct

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

and there is no power to #4 fuse either side so we must back up to the power distribution center

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

are you ther

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

are you there

Customer :

I went outside to the truck

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

if there is no power to fuse 4 then we have to go from there back to where the power comes from

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

do you have head lights

Customer :

yes I have headlights and brake lights, and incorrect THERE IS POWER TO #4 FUSE.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

reason i ask i will show you in the up coming image.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

now what did you find in the power distribution senter

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

at the two locations in the last image

Customer :

from your diagram it looks like power runs from #4 fuse to the park lamp relay and then on to the various lights, I understand that if I don't have power at the relay then there won't be power at slot #9, which is for the dash. So it stands to reason that there is a bad connection between fuse #4, WHICH THERE IS POWER, and the relay. But why would that effect me losing the signals as well two nights ago which was fixed by replacing the 20amp fuse in F/L #1 in the second diagram.

Customer :

I checked F/L # 5 & 7 and they are good fuses with power

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

no, if you do not have power at fuse 4 there will be no power in between the fuse and relay we have to find out why there is no power to fuse 4 to get power to relay

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

if i am to understand what you are telling me is there is no power to either side on fuse 4 correct

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

m sending you after confirmation where the power comes from to parking lamp relay

Customer :

there IS power to both side of the 20amp fuse #4 in the fuse box that is in the cab. I have power to that fuse and the fuse is good

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

Full Size Image

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok so sorry

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

so #9 fuse is the one with no power to either side of fuse correct

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

we are going to do a continuity check from fuse 4 to slot 30 of the relay. Do you have continuity ?

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

we have power to fuse 4 but no power to slot 30 correct

Customer :

correct, fuse #9 doesn't have power correct fuse #4 HAS power

Customer :

correct no power at slot #30

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

you have multimeter to check this wire from out put fuse 4 to slot 30

Customer :

how do I check this wire in the diagram?? is it way up inside the dashboard coming off my light switch

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

i am searching this for you now

Customer :

I'm heading out to the truck to see if maybe a jumper wire from fuse 4 to slot 30 will do anything

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

the wire is behind the the junction box and goes up to the head light switch

Customer :

ok from the diagram it looks like its a black and yellow wire, how do I check to see if the wire is good using a multimeter

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

sorry i do not know what wire color this is in the diagram, but what we are checking is to the relay not through the relay. The black /yellow wire is after going through relay. If it is black and yellow i need to correct our wiring diagram. image coming up.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

Full Size Image

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

then test slot 86 as well then test in short steps back to fuse when you have continuity then there is the break in wire

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

does not matter which lead goes where the black can go to fuse port and the red to slot 86 and 30

Customer :

in the previous diagram you said to test a wire for continuity and that was a bk/yl wire coming from the headlamp switch to the park relay, i was wondering how to test that wire with a multimeter.

Customer :

I'll go out and test them, using a volt meter I should get 12v, correct

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

yes but use the continuity scale =e on the ohm side

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

turn your meter to the 20k scale touch leads to gether and it should beep or red zero ohms. When you check the circuit and is open the no ohms will display

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

or you can use the volt scale and keep one lead to the fuse 4 port and slowly working back to fuse, when you have 12 volts showing back up and find where the reading zero is and then find 12 volts between them is the problem

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

I like the beep continuity meter if you have it cause i can pay attention to what i am oing and listen too when i have contact to fuse 4 out port

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

or you can run wire from port 4 out put to relay 66 and 30 and see if you have parking lights and dash lights

Customer :

ok got it, give me a bit to check

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

i will be here till 7 am

Customer :

Alright what I did was run a jumper wire from the #4 fuse and I got dashboard and tail lights when I connected the wire to slot #87, the other slots gave me the "chime noise" when the door is open, but not lights in any of the other slots just slot #87

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

alright you have a break in that wire i would just run new wire and all is well. Just snip off old wire from both ends

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

I am glad you found the problem.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

Is there anything else i can help you with?

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

Do you see a green accept button on the screen?

Customer :

hold on a second, a break in what wire?? run a new wire from where to where?? How do I get at this wire??

Customer :

all the wires at the back of the fuse box look like they go into fusable links

Customer :

I don't think there is just one wire going from fuse #4 to slot 87, it's not that easy

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

jump #4 to slot 86 and then to 30 do you have lights?

Customer :

jump #4 to 86 LIGHTS

Customer :

jump #4 to 30 NO LIGHTS

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

what ou did is by pass the relay i want to make sure you go through relay, cause you might have a bad ground. If yo have lights the it is the power going to slot 86 and 30 from fuse out port 4

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

correct

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok hold pleas

Customer :

yes i understand. Well then how do I look for a bad ground if that may ultimately be the problem.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok the ground for 86 and 30 run on the same wire. You have a wiring problem before slot 86 which supplies slot 30 power, too.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

I would run new wire to slot 86 from fuse port 4. and this will take care of the problem

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

so the ground is not an issue ir=f you run the jumper from port 4 to slot 86, do you have power at slot 30?

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

just to re check

Customer :

at slot 30 the test lamp doesn't go on and nothing happened when I put the jumper wire on slot 30

Customer :

so I'm assuming there is no power there

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

no, put jumper at slot 86 and test with light at 30

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

sorry from port 4 to slot 86 and then test slot 30 for power

Customer :

ill try it

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

opk

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok

Customer :

I put the jumper from fuse #4 to slot 87, I got the dash and tail lights on, and then with the jumper still on I checked the other slots 30, 85, 86, and 87a with the test lamp and there is no power at any of the slots.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

As i have mentioned before you are bypassing slot 86 and 30 by going to slot 87 you must jump from port fuse 4 to slot 86 leave jumper on and with test light check slot 30

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

take your time i know this is in a tight place

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

i need to know if you have power to know where to go next

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

this will have to be done at the back of junction box with relay install. c=this is called back probing.

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

if you are getting tired we can continue tomorrow if you like? i will tell you how to keep us in contact?

Customer :

ok, with the jumper from #4 to slot 86, I got power at the 30 slot

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

do the lights work?

Customer :

no, the dash and tail lights never come on when I jump to slot 86, they only work when I jump to slot 87

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

is the relay next to the parking light relay the sameas the relay next to it?

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

prog wise

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

i need this info to continue with the wiring charts

Customer :

the relay next to it is the horn relay and its the same exact relay. The horn works so I switched them around earlier to see if the relay was bad. The horn works with either relay and the lights don't work with either relay

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

i wish i had two screens to view and talk to you i have to switch from you to the professional chart diagrams so please excuse my delays

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok making sure and yes no lights cause no power going through relay, if you are getting tired and it is dark out where you are at we can continue this tomorrow, i speak in consideration of you, me i am ok to proceed

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

do you have automatic or clutch?

Customer :

automatic

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

ok cause there is a tsb from the dealer stats of wiring routed incorrectly and rubbing on clutch arm

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

still trying to find this ground i know it is a black and pink dtrip wire

Leon Davidian,Sr. :

thank you for the wait i was in a meeting discussing the matter with other dodge master techs and we all agree that there is a grounding problem. The ground from the central timer module controls the ground to the parking light relay. Which as we know controls #9 fuse as well from the headlight switch. Everything leads to the Central Timer Module.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Relist: Answer quality.
find me someone who can fix my problem, not just troubleshoot the same things I already trouble shot
Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for the wait i was in a meeting discussing the matter with other dodge master techs and we all agree that there is a grounding problem. The ground from the central timer module controls the ground to the parking light relay. Which as we know controls #9 fuse as well from the headlight switch. Everything leads to the Central Timer Module.

Lee
Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 1 year ago.
Hello i have given you the answer the central timer is the problem.
I am sorry you can not accept my answer. How can i help you fix something that is not working electronically in a module? It has to be replaced new or used it will have to be replaced.

Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 1 year ago.
i spent almost 5 hours with you and this is the thanks i get for trying to help you. we went over all this to come to a conclusion? I will opt out for someone to help you. thank you, Leon
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.
Hello and welcome to JustAnswer!

Take a close look at the terminals in the junction block (fuse box in the dash) where the park lamp relay and fuse 4 go. Look for any signs of heat damage and look very closely to see if the terminals show any signs of spreading.

Does everything look ok?

Power needs to flow from fuse 4 to the park lamp relay, which is done inside the junction block. Your park lamps aren't working because this isn't happening. The only possible causes for this would be a poor connection at the fuse, the relay, or an internal junction block failure.

I've seen loose terminals at the park lamp relay from overheating. If there are signs of heat damage or the terminals are spread then that's going to be your issue.

If you find the terminals show damage then you may be able to clean them up and retighten them with a pick, electrical contact cleaner and a small brush if necessary.

If the terminals all look ok then you're going to need to replace the junction block and you'll have lights again.

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