I have a dodge charger srt8 2006 that is shutting off intermittently. The car has been to two dodge dealership and no one can diagnose the problem. The check engine light is on and the codes that it is pulling is p/171/174. The map sensor has been changed on the car, but it is still acting up. A tech took it home for a whole weekend and found no problems, the computer even cleared itself. I got the car back for one day and car shut off again and check engine light is back on with same codes. Smoke test was also done and the engine has no leaks in it. What else could be the culprit?
Country: United StatesMake: DodgeModel: Charger SRT8Year: 2006Engine: 6.1
replaced battery and map sensor
I'd pull the fuel pump out at this point and check for visible burning of the power terminals in the pump module top. Hi, my name isXXXXX to JustAnswer!.
I just saw this same problem on a Charger a few weeks ago and it had only about 45K miles on it. The fuel system was running at less pressure than normal which caused it to set a P0171/ 0174 pair of codes as the PCM attempts to compensate for lean-running. While this Charger wasn't actually dying out, it had difficulty restarting when hot due to vapor lock (inherent with low system pressure and high underhood temps) and the two FUEL SYSTEM LEAN codes.
It's the left (driver's) side fuel module that needs to be checked, which is accessed by removing the rear seat bottom by pulling up forcefully at the front edge of the seat unit. Fuel level needs to be at or below 5/8ths-of-a-tank or fuel spill will occur, so time your exploration to have as little fuel as possible present. Unfortunately, it's difficult to impossible to remove the lock ring retaining the pump unit to the tank without the special spanner tool, so this may not help you much.
Once the lock ring is removed and the module top is lifted, the pump module will separate, leaving the main pump unit sitting on the tank bottom. There will be an electrical connection between the module top and the actual pump motor, which is where the unit needs to be inspected. Heating from a high resistance terminal connection may have discolored the plastic of the pump module top which will be a dead giveaway... and there may even be some melting involved. The two outer wires (of 4) are the power and ground... the center ones are for the left side tank level unit.
This is where I'd look, given the excellent info you've provided. While I can't blame PCM resets on a fuel delivery problem, FUEL SYSTEM LEAN codes usually mean business, especially when it affects both cylinder banks equally. You're looking for something in common between the two and since the MAP sensor has already been replaced, this would be the next most likely place to look.
Let me know if you have any questions or problems. I'll be glad to help.
30-year Dodge/Chrysler exp., ASE Master with L1 certification. Driveability/ combustion specialist
Ok I'll look into checking that. I am not afraid of working on cars so I have no problem checking it out. I have several over questions though. Since this has been happening for the past three weeks I was able to record when it stalls out. It seem to happen in the early morning, and when parked at idle it happens at about 132 degrees. if I check this my self, which I may attend to do can I get the spanner tool from AutoZone or is a proprietary?And, if it is I am assuming I should take it back to the dealership and have them inspect this? Lol! Something they should have checked in the first place?
I'm not sure how much use an aftermarket scanner would be... frankly. Unless you step up to a professional model with the capacity for engine sensor and fuel management access, you'll get something that does little more than just read codes and you already know what codes are being set.By all means, take a look under the back seat to see if this is something you want to tackle. The actual fuel supply line exits on the RIGHT side fuel module, so you won't have to discharge a pressurized line when inspecting this left side module, but keep in mind that fuel is extremely volatile and vapors will quickly fill the interior of the vehicle once the module seal is cracked... which is a recipe for disaster if a spark is created in the area. Honestly, given the information you gave me, I'd have looked closer at the fuel system. There aren't many reasons for fuel system lean codes to set and fuel delivery is surely one of 'em.By all means, shoot me any questions you have; I don't answer a question unless there is lots of gas in the tank... so to speak. This is my area of expertise and I'm not shy about sharing it.Talk in a bit,Ed
Ok will do I will be in contact with you for more advice.
I'll be here.Many thanks!Ed
Good Evening Sir, I Just ordered spanner tool from Auto Zone, I am going to attempt this repair Sunday or Monday. If that is the problem, I will need replace part numbers if you have those and I am thinking while I am in there I will change fuel filter and regulator. Do you suggest that?
You can get this from Auto Zone? Marvelous!Replacing the regulator and filter involve complete replacement of the RIGHT side fuel module, which is what it does... mostly. Fuel is pumped from the left side, arriving at the right side of the tank, where it's regulated and any extra fuel is sent back to the left.WITH more fuel from the right side tank if volume from the pump is sufficient. It uses an ejector principle to shoot a stream of fuel through a venturi which drags ambient gasoline from the right side tank to the left. This is how it scours the right side tank and what's left over is offered the possibility of moving forward to the engine under 62 psi.If you want to replace the filter and regulator, I'm afraid the only option is to replace the entire right side unit. An ungainly hose and wiring system connects the two within the tank, so my advice is to tie a string to the hose connections you have to remove at the left side unit before pulling them across the inside of the tank. Remember that it's much better to have less than half a tank of fuel present if at all possible. The left side tank will naturally be higher in level than the right one which is another thing to consider.Remember that you will be building dangerous amounts of fuel vapor inside the car with the fuel modules removed, so have all the doors open, the car outside and have an extinguisher on hand for each side of the vehicle... just in case... and stick to wearing cotton on this day for static reduction. A helper would be a good idea.Ed
Ah, I understand. The right side sucks in fuel from tank and left side sends gas to injectors, Correct?
Well... sort of. Pump volume is created on the left, sent to the right, regulated, return sent back to the left and what's left over is 62 psi and sent to the engine. With this system there is really no volume of flow to the engine if it's not using anything; it's just there in case it's needed.I missed your earlier point about SHOULD you replace the filter and regulator? I'd say no.Unless there's a TON of miles on the car or you have problems with retaining pressure at key-off, I'd concentrate on getting the system pumping again for the time being. Replacing both units would be the safe bet, but you can always go back later and do the right side unit if needed. It does mean pulling the left side pump unit again for line and electrical disconnect, but chances are slim that you need both units.
Good day sir, well after not having the intestinal fortitude to attack the fuel pump, I found a reputable shop in my area to take car to. I discussed problem with vehicle and codes being thrown. They have tested vehicle and the first thing they found was a faulty accelerator position sensor. They plan to replace that tomorrow and keep looking into car. Does that make any sense to you?
Hey, it's for the best. I'm really glad you didn't "try this at home"! =/
A faulty APP? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how that could cause stalling and not setting a code. APP input is often one of the hardest codes to actually set a hard code for because the PCM pretty much believes anything it sees from the APP as long as the two traces agree (it uses two 5v potentiometers that work on different voltages, but can easily be compared to one another for redundancy).
I won't argue with success if it worked, that's for sure. Do you know the specific trouble codes if any?
Honestly I don't. All I know are the codes it produced after it stalled and I don't know if i told you before, but the CEL reset itself every time. The last codes it pulled were: 171/174/140a
An actual reset or clearing of codes by the PCM without asking for it describes a situation where the controller takes a nap. I decided to not chime in on this earlier because I figure the codes were actually just cleared by the tech driving your SRT over the weekend... hard telling and no way to prove one way or the other.
I'm not sure what that 140a is supposed to be. No P-codes are listed for this (P140A), but U140A describes an implausible RF wheel speed signal and C140A has something to do with a speaker circuit.
Codes like P0171/ 0174 take time to generate, meaning the engine has to be running poorly for several minutes in most cases to give the fuel trims time to shift. If THESE codes survive, but everything else disappears... I'm not sure what to say.
Maybe what you're telling me is that the CEL turns off on its own. Sometimes I miss the obvious!
If a particular problem doesn't show itself for the next 2-3 drive cycles, they're recorded as "Good Trips" and the CEL is extinguished but the code stays in memory. Does that sound more like what's going on?
Exactly, the car is clearing itself. And then codes come back. The car's tach has surged and stalled and the the car has stalled at idle. And it was the latter implausible rf wheel speed. And car has been running like crap for almost a month. This tech made me feel a little bit better though because he mentioned the same thing that you did when I told him the trouble codes, 171/174. That the car is not getting gas (that was the first thing out his mouth). He also said that it could be a myriad of things causing that code and that they would take their time and check everything. I'll keep you posted on progress, hopefully the car will be sorted out by tomorrow.
M-kay. Honestly, The Chase is what keeps me in this business but it's tough being outside of the true loop. Info is everything.