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Dodge expert, ASE Cert Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 10370
Experience:  30 years experience, ase certified,shop owner
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Dodge Stratus: Got a 2003 dodge stratus SE 2.4L DOHC. Changed

Resolved Question:

Got a 2003 dodge stratus SE 2.4L DOHC. Changed the timing belt this weekend and tested it just before putting it all back together, worked like a champ. Put it all back together this morning and now it wont fire. Turners over, got spark on all cylinders, have fuel pressure. It sounds like it's out of time but have taken it all apart again and the timing is perfect.
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
Welcome to just answer.com. I'm here to help you and your 100% satisfaction is my goal. We will need to checked the cam and crank signal using a lab scope Test the output from the Crankshaft Position Sensor and the Camshaft Position Sensor . Both should be 5 volt square wave signals. The CKP is located behind the timing belt cover. The CMP is located on the driver's side of the cylinder head what is your vehicle identification number?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
VIN: 1B3EL36X23N589807
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
Yes using a lab scope checked to see what the signal is from the sensors but also these very commonly have broke in locating dowels on the cam gears checked the cam gears and make sure that the locators are not broken or partially sheared off
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Breaking out the oscilliscope. Should I see the car throwing a code if this was the case?
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
They can throw a coded times but not always , make sure the dowel is good on the cam's also
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Can you send me a pic of this dowl? The cam sensor is on the intake cam, correct.
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

That pic doesn't look like it's from my engine? At least I don't reconize it. Can you confirm 2.4L DOHC? I think the CAM sensor is on the driver's side intake cam?

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
This is the one in the rear of the engine that does not look like yours because that is with the vin code x
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
So your saying it doesn't apply to my engine?
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
The dowel is behind the cam gear, you'll need to remove the cam gears from the cam shafts and check the dowels these go bad very often so any time you replace the timing belt on these it's always a good idea to checked them while it's a part
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Are you refering to the "key's" that are on each of the cam shafts that align the spockets to the shaft? I'm so lost :(

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.

Here is a different view

graphic

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
That looks much better! What do you want me to look at? Hey I'm willing to pay a fair price for your time. I just wanted to be clear that your time is money :)
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.

Connect the scope of cross pins two and three and tell me if the square wave is correct

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
What hours are you working tomorrow? Got to get some sleep.
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
aprox 7am-11pm eastern
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks man

 

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
No problem thank you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Is there any way to test this sensor on the bench? I'm guessing not :(

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
No unfortunately it must be tested on the vehicle
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

That's what I figured :( Hey when the Camshaft Position Sensor fails is it just the sensor itself or the part that rotates with the Cam? The sensor is only $40 if you think I should just replace it. Got a pic of the location of the Crankshaft Position sensor? It's only $17.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Don't tell me that dam thing is behind the iner-timing belt cover.
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
yes unfortunately the crank sensor is behind the cover
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
So behind the iner-cover? So camshaft sprockets off again?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Could you also address the previous question?

 

"That's what I figured :( Hey when the Camshaft Position Sensor fails is it just the sensor itself or the part that rotates with the Cam? The sensor is only $40 if you think I should just replace it. Got a pic of the location of the Crankshaft Position sensor? It's only $17."

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.

Just take a look at this picture and tell me if this is the location on yours , it will save you from removing the cover if it is I'm not sure because this is from all data and they were wrong on the cam sensor , so this information may not be correct but if checked this location first

REMOVAL - 4 CYLINDER

  1. Disconnect the negative battery cable.
  2. Raise vehicle and support.

 

Fig.4 4 Cylinder

 

  1. Disconnect the electrical connector.
  2. Remove crankshaft sensor bolt.
  3. Remove the crankshaft sensor.

INSTALLATION - 4 CYLINDER

  1. Install the crankshaft sensor.
  2. Install crankshaft sensor bolt and tighten.
  3. Connect the electrical connector.
  4. Lower vehicle.
  5. Connect the negative battery cable.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Trying to figure out location from that pic. Do you think that is the Harmonic Balancer on the right side. If so that would be the back side of cylinder 1?

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
Yes if you look closely at the picture the harmonic balance grooves are too the right side
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Nope, then that's not the picture of my application. Let's find another one.

 

 

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.

grrrrr these two manuals are driving me crazy sorry about that Bear with me if you would please I just checked Mitchell it showed the same exact location but there was also a footnote from two other shops saying that the Mitchell information was wrong . Here is what two other shops had found

graphic

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

How many conductors does it have. When I was under there I saw a sensor near cylinder 4 with a single conductor (eg wire)

 

Check out this thread. Sounds just like my issue

 

http://www.justanswer.com/dodge/4ok0h-dodge-stratus-sxt-2005-dodge-stratus-2-4l-sxt-won-t-start.html

 

Just found it! It's on the front side, with two conductors.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Dam, that thread never seemed to help that poor man.
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.

yes this one was never solved he was leaning toward low compression have you tested the compression yet

graphic

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

No I have not, but it sure feels like I've got compression when manually turning over the engine when checking the timing. I'll run to Autozone for a compression guage and a noid light for the injectors.

 

I tried cranking it just now and hooked up the Actron Scanner and she's throwing code P0562 something about a low voltage situation. I've got the battery charger hooked up, she sounded rather week after all that cranking and no running.

 

What's your gut telling you? I could just start replacing stuff. WTF:(

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
Check to see if it runs on supplemental fuel , if it does the compression is good , spray some starting fluid into the air intake
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Off to the parts store again :( Would you recommend me changing the cam and crank sensors without a prior test. The boss would not let me take the oscope home with me, so I can't test.

 

The Actron CP9580 gives me a live readout of just about every sensor but I can't find any data for the CAM or Crank sensors. Would they possibly we called something else?

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
They may be called the cmp, and ckp sensors
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Off to the parts store again :( Would you recommend me changing the cam and crank sensors without a prior test. The boss would not let me take the oscope home with me, so I can't test.
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
If you cannot obtain a scope to test a properly Then yes the only thing you can do is replace the sensors
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Cam and crank sensors in hand, also purchased a compression tester, forgot that dam noid light, crap.

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
Sounds good let me know what the results are thank you if
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hey how do you get the connector off the sensor. Can we get a new clip all the insulation from the wires has come off their are just three bare wires?
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
You'll have to see if you can get the terminals and the connector from the dealer I don't believe that is available separately on your particular engine the easiest thing for you to do would be to go to a salvage yard and purchase A short piece of the harness and have them cut that connector And say 6 inches of wire off for you then reconnect that connector to your existing harness
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

graphic

 

How do I get the dam thing off :)

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
Using a small screwdriver slide the red tab to the right then you'll be able to depress the locking down near the wires and pull the connector off, but you must slide the red tab to the right first
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
So this right side is refected in the picture? So push the left side red tab in so the right side come out further?
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
Correct just the way see it in the picture
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
That worked. Could the whole harness be that shape? Do they sell the whole harness?
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
Unfortunately no they do not sell the entire harness very cheaply from can purchase the whole thing but you're talking about over $1000 and a lot of work I would checked the rest of the harness strip back some of the wrapping and checked the conductors usually this type of a problem only happens right near the engine the cause of the heat and oil
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
OK let me clean this connection up and we'll go from there.
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
Okay let me know thank you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Ok, rebuilt Cam Position connector and installed new sensor.

Tested compression:

Cylinder Compression

1 180

2 165

3 180

4 170

 

Still same symptoms. Crankshaft sensor next.

 

How do those compression number sound?

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
Yes replace the sensor and also does this run momentarily if you spray starting fluid into the air intake
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

It sort of runs momentarily now :(

 

So just remove the filter and squirt some in? Is this a two person job? How much?

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
This is a one person job , give it about 1/2 second shot of starting fluid
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Will do on the starting fluid!

 

The sensor I thought was the Camshaft Position sensor was not. Or at least it's not the part Autozone(AZ) sold me. The one I pulled off has two conductors and the AZ part number SU3334 has three and looks very different.

 

graphic

 

The one on the right is what I pulled from the car. Left in the new part.

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
The sensor on the right appears to be a knock sensor
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Ok, I've been reading that I have to remove the front motor mount to access it?

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
One note did say it was located behind the starter
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Getting dark so I'll save that till the morning. Thanks for you help so far, lord I've got to get this working.
Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
No problem all talked in the morning thank you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I thought I'd give the girl one last try before going to bed and what do you know, she fired up. Ran like crap for 30 seconds (must have been lots of unspent fuel in the cylinders) but then she purred like a kitten :)

 

It must have been the connector on the Cam Position Sensor. I'm going to put the old sensor back to be sure.

 

What ever it was, your the man!

 

I'll hit you up in the morning and we'll get square.

 

Cheers

Expert:  Dodge expert replied 2 years ago.
your very welcome
Dodge expert, ASE Cert Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 10370
Experience: 30 years experience, ase certified,shop owner
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