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jeepmopar76
jeepmopar76, Dodge/Chrysler Triple Master Tech
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 2144
Experience:  32 yr ASE Master Tech,9 yr Chrysler Master Tech, 13 years Dodge dealership service
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2005 Dodge: 5.9L Cummins 260,000 miles Automatic tranny problem

Customer Question

2005 Dodge with 5.9L Cummins 260,000 miles Automatic tranny problem. Codes are 1749, 1751, and 1753. The unit that was in the truck was not repairable and was exchanged with different unit. Truck was drove for about 2 months with check engine light on. The TTVA was replace with a new one from MOPAR but still wont function. I have tried the "auto zero" several times with no success. Pin tested the connector and I do have the grounds and 5 volt reference where they should be but I do not have the 12volt source from the ECM, in fact I have ground on that pin too. My ? is is there something that switches that pin from ground to 12 volts. Does the 12 volts come from the ECM directly or does the ECM turn on a relay? Could the ECM circuit be burnt out from driving it to long with a bad TTVA and the code on? The transmission works but is in "fail safe mode" so the 1-2 shift is late and very harsh, it shifts to all other gears and L.U. functions also. Thanks.
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  jeepmopar76 replied 4 years ago.

Hello and welcome to Just Answer. My name is Denny; now let me see if I can help you with Dodge question.

  1. P1753 - Trans Throttle Valve Mechanical Performance
  2. P1751 - Trans Throttle Valve Position Sensor Minimum Range Position
  3. P1749 - Trans Throttle Valve Position Sensor Circuit Low

were these exact codes there before you changed the ttva?

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I did not scan the Truck before I pulled the unit so I can't say for certian, I do know the check engine light had been on for about 2 months before the transmission went out. This is a work truck for a carport company so it has mutiple drivers so getting a good answer from then about symtoms might be tuff.

I did take the top off of the old TTVA and the gears on the it were stripped out and it was resting almost in the center of the driven gear.
Expert:  jeepmopar76 replied 4 years ago.
Why did you replace it in the first place?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
If your talking about the tranny, it was burnt up, the rear of the case was not repairable and the OD unit was not repairable either.

If you are talking abot the TTVA it was broke as I said the plastic gears where stripped out. Have you ever seen inside a TTVA.
Expert:  jeepmopar76 replied 4 years ago.

i am sorry but i missed your mention of the plastic gears being stripped out.

You may have a defective ttva, as these codes are all pointing to it. the key would have been, if these codes were in there before. You may have damaged wires up above the tranny, or pinched from the install; it happens. If all of the wires look ok I can try to find you the diag charts for these codes, but that may take a lot of down loads. Let me know.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Can you tell me if I should have 12volts at the conector to the TTVA? If so does the ECM supply this or does it go thru a relay. I have check the wires and the are all fine. My thinking is yes the new TTVA could be bad, but if the 12 volts are not there then it won't work. But, if the new TTVA is infact bad it might not be turning on the 12volts from the ECM. Is the 12 volts present with the key on or does something turn it on. If it should be there all the time then I would think the ECM is bad.
Expert:  jeepmopar76 replied 4 years ago.

i did some research and found this; check this out, and I will get you some wiring

Case NumberK10461410
Vehicle IssueTrans may not shift properly. Diagnostic trouble code may be present.;Applies to 2005 (DH) models equipped with 48RE auto trans and Cummins diesel engine that uses "drive by wire" throttle system and TTVA (trans throttle valve actuator which replaces the throttle valve cable system (TV). Trans upshift / downshift profile may not be correct. Diagnostic trouble code involving the TTVA system may be present.
System or ComponentUpshift / Downshift Issues;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Automatic Transmission / Transaxle;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously
RecommendationThe Trans Throttle Valve Actuator (TTVA) system is now used on 2005 (DH) Heavy Duty Cummins engine models. With the elimination of the throttle cable for the engine, it was decided to also eliminate the throttle valve cable for the trans (TV). The TTVA is an electric motor that is used to move the throttle valve on the trans. The TTVA is controlled by the Cummins engine controller. Improper trans shift timing and / or TTVA trouble code present may be caused by an incomplete crimp on the band securing the TTVA motor top cover to the actuator assembly. This incomplete crimp can result in water intrusion and cause trouble codes to set. Any of the following trouble codes may result, however for this condition, P1754 is most likely: P1749 - Trans Throttle Valve Position Sensor Circuit Low P1750 - Trans Throttle Valve Position Sensor Circuit High P1751 - Trans Throttle Valve Position Sensor Minimum Range Position P1752 - Trans Throttle Valve Span Performance P1753 - Trans Throttle Valve Mechanical Performance P1754 - Trans Throttle Valve Actuator Stuck P1755 - Trans Throttle Valve Control Circuit Before diagnosing TTVA related trouble codes, inspect the TTVA assembly for the incomplete crimp condition. Most of the crimp is visible without removing the valve, and the back side of the valve (facing the trans case) can be checked using an inspection mirror. If the TTVA is found to have an incomplete crimp, replace the valve. If the trouble code returns after valve replacement or if no crimp problem is noted, refer to the standard diagnostic test procedure for the trouble code being addressed. Repair as required.
Modification Date03/11/05 5:28 PM

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Thanks for the info I am pretty sure the TTVA does don't have this prob. as it was in a sealed bag and box from MOPAR but who knows what happend to it on it way over fom Germany.
Expert:  jeepmopar76 replied 4 years ago.

8180eb11

8180ec12

8180eb42

Expert:  jeepmopar76 replied 4 years ago.
There were 3 schematics showing some splices to look into, if you are not getting 12 at key on; also it looks like the ECM controls the sensor ground on the db/dg wire, and it has a splice. I hope this helps.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
After some more testing it looks like I have ground comming from circuit K314 this is the circuit that should have my 12volt source for the TTVA motor. I have ground in the K315 circuit also like it should. I also have the 5 volt source in the F856 circuit. Do you think that if the ECM is bad it could be sending ground into the wrong circuit?
Expert:  jeepmopar76 replied 4 years ago.
You have ground on k314 with it unplugged at the TTVA? If so, unplug the ecm and see if it is still grounded

Edited by jeepmopar76 on 6/19/2010 at 6:09 PM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Relist: Incomplete answer.
Expert:  jeepmopar76 replied 4 years ago.
Why would you re list, after all the time I have spent with you? I have downloaded info for you plus wiring. As I said, if you have ground on the K314 circuit, you need to unplug it at the Cumins ECM, to see if the wire still shows ground; if not you are OK; if it does then the wire is shorted to ground somewhere
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Sorry must have clicked the wrong button, when we did the test we did not relize that the 12v is only there for a second or two. and returns once the TTVA auto zeros. When the harness is unpluged the ground goes away. I am doing some more testing with it today and will let you know the results.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Update on the ECM, The k314 circuit never puts 12 volt ever, my test show that it should flash 12 volts then go away. would it be best to replace the ECM with a new one or is there a place the remans. these units. Customer does not really wont to spend 2k at the dealership for a new ECM and then pay for a reflash.
Expert:  jeepmopar76 replied 4 years ago.
I know of nowhere that reman's these, but I am sure there is.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Well do you think the ECM is the problem?
Expert:  jeepmopar76 replied 4 years ago.

I would never suggest any control module replacement until all diagnostics are exhausted.It is rarely the module, but usually a wire or sensor.

Here is a flow chart for the last code, that may help; i can eventually send you the diag. for all 3 codes, so that you can see what is in common.

I will have to send these later as My web connection is down. ( to my diagnostics)

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Just thought I would let you know that I had the ECM rebuilt locally in Dallas, Texas and the tranny works fine. My guess is that the customer drove the truck for to long and it burned the circuit out of the ECM.

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