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Tim Mohr
Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 12911
Experience:  30 YRS EXPERIENCE, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, GAS AND DEISEL
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I have a 98 dodge stratus. Just replaced timing belt and water

Customer Question

I have a 98 dodge stratus. Just replaced timing belt and water pump. Now the genesis is showing a p0172 code. Runs rough at idle and showing MANY misfires on cyl 2.Where to begin looking?
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
Hi, my name is XXXXX XXXXX the timing belt break or was it replaced for maintenance/
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
It was replaced because the water pump failed.As long as we were in there.
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
do you have a scanner?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Yes a OTC Genisys EVO
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.

while watching the datastream, does the cam and crank say there are in sync, it will say sync "YES" or Sync "NO"

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I dont see that in the data stream screen. Now has a p0300 multiple cyl misfire code.
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
which motor does this have?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
2.4
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.

and have you double checked the timing mark yet? was it doing it before it came in?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Double and triple checked alignment marks. Right on the money. Runs good going down road, but stumbles and stalls(cust comments) in gear at lights etc.
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
if the marks are dead on, then it isnt a problem that you caused, the 172 is a rich code, so i would swap #2 injector with another and see if the missfire moves with the injector, if it were in the ignition, you would be dropping 2 cylinders with the direct ignition,Tim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Which one is inj 2?
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
the second one from the front of the motor,Tim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Moved #2 and #4 inj around, still shows high misfire count on cyl number 2
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
can you run a compression check on number 2 cylinder?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Comp is between 150-160 on all 4 cyl. Cust stated he put in plugs last night. Pulled all 4 and plugs are not new. Will post when new plugs are in.
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
let me know, check the intake for vacuum leaks too if you can,Tim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
after plug change cyl 2 is showing 113 misfires and 3 is showing 18 before resetting the count cycle
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
changed coil and still get high misfire counts on number 2 cyl.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Just pulled manifold vac. 12-13 at rough idle 16 at 1500rpm
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
its 800 am sat am, im back
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
IT appears you have a vacuum leak, have you sprayed carb cleaner around the engine?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes we have sprayed around.but when we remove a vac line the eng idles better
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.

If it idle better when you remove the line, then it is running rich, what does the coolant temp sensor read on the datastream?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
192 at full warm up
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
what does th intake air temp read? and does the upstream o2 read rich at idle?

Edited by TIM MOHR on 4/17/2010 at 4:01 PM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
iat 66 o2sens 1 starts at .47 v and stays around .92v
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
could it be bad fuel with the pressure up where it needs to be?
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
The system is running rich if the o2 stays at around .92, it should be switching hi and low, you already swapped #2 injector with another one,correct?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
switched 2 and 4 then 1 and 4. Miss stayed at predominately number 2 cyl. 20sec cycle 110 misses on number 2. 1,3,4 showed a couple of misses.
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
have you tried it running without the air cleaner in it, it is running rich for some reason, and you temps on the air and coolant are good, have you pulled #2 plug and seen if it looks like it has been running rich?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
all 4 plugs were changed. all the old ones were black. When we take a vac line off the intake manifold, it seems to run better. We tried a diff coil and new wires. pulled and cleaned the iac.
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.

If the old plugs were black, then its running rich, have you driven this yet? is there a lack of power?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Runs fine when not at idle. Plenty of power. Just stumbles and shakes at idle.
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
well we need to rule out restricted intake and restricted exhaust, have you tried running it without the airbox lid on?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes and if exh was restricted wouldnt it run worse under load?
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
yes it should, but Ive seen some strange symtoms with a restricted exhaust, try dropping the exhaust before the cat and see if it idle better, or you can do a backpressure test, if it has more than 1 psi of back pressure, the exhaust is restricted.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
how and where do you check back pressure? The tps voltage is .84 at idle and 1.04 at 3000 rpm.Could it be fuel quality?
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
Yes it could be fuel quality, to check back pressure, you must screw a pressure gauge into where the upostream o2 sensor is mounted, then start it, it must be below 1 psi
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Barely nudged the needle. What should the fuel pressure range be?
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
koeo 49 psi
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Fuel press is good. What about tps range? Could that be the cause of rich smell at idle and fine down the road?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
What about the ecm? Could this have gone bad?
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
lets check the o2 sensor, watch the data on the o2 , when you pull the vacuum line and lean it out, does the o2 drop?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
o2 sens 1/1 fluxs between .08 and .92 either with vac on or off. o2 sens 1/2 flux between .59 and .76 At op temp
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
Its possible you have a bad o2 sensor, can you create a larger vacuum leak and see if the 02 sensor will go any lower?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
pulled the only 2 vac lines off. sens 1 didnt affect it much sens 2 stayed up around .72-.85
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Do you have a diagram of what the timing belt alignment should be? Marks etc.
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
graphic
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
could it be 1 tooth off and give us this problem?
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
yes, i thought you already checked this????
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
we did. It was 1 tooth off and we reset it to align. Just wanted to make sure it couldnt be 1/2 tooth off.We realigned and now runs like it does.They hauled the car in with the water pump shot. So we do not know how it ran before.
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
no, it has to be 1 or more teeth off,Tim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
so does this mean it goes to the dealership or do you have any other ideas?
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
you said the needle on the back pressure gauge just barely moves? what was the actual reading?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
between 0 and 1
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
i cant think of anything else to check, I will opt out and see if another expert can help,Tim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
before you do, now the closed loop enable time of 20 sec is not showing any more misfires. but the spark advance is flucuating between 6-16 degrees with a jump to 126 degrees.
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
the spark advance is spiking to 126? does it still miss?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
not showing misses on the screen but still is stumbling at idle,at idle spark bounces between 2 and 44 spiking to 126 sometimes. At 2800rpm spark is constant 49-50
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
wanted to make sure you got the reply
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
this could be a bad ecm, with it spiking like that.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
it jumps to 126 6 times in 30 seconds. ECM best bet to change?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
just wanted you to finish this with me
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
I will continue to help you, but lets leave it open for other experts to chime in too,Tim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
sound good. Just wanted you to get paid for this.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ARe the ecm's different between "rides" or where would I find that info?
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
the ecm is specific for your vehicle and trans combo, if you are replacing with a used one, the numbers must match exactly for it to work,Tim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
THe 2 options it list are std ride and firm ride. Where would I find that info?
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
if you call your local dealer and give them your Vin #, they will tell you if its standard or firm,Tim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Ecm replacement stoped the timing from wildy jumping. Goona test drive and let you know.
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
Great, let me know how it runs,Tim
Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 12911
Experience: 30 YRS EXPERIENCE, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, GAS AND DEISEL
Tim Mohr and 14 other Dodge Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
it still shudders and misses at idle. the computer did not solve it but it made a slight improvement
Expert:  Tim Mohr replied 4 years ago.
I thought with the timing being corrected, it would take care of the other problems.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
took to chrysler. It was the iac. Replaced and runs ok now.

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