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Chris
Chris, Shop Foreman
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 9975
Experience:  ASE and Chrysler Certified Master Tech
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2002 dodge stratus 2.4 no start cranks... get one injection

Customer Question

2002 dodge stratus 2.4 no start cranks... get one injection pulse then no more... use scanner to activate coils .. very weak spark... activate injectors can hear them click but not enough power to light noid light
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Chris replied 4 years ago.

Hello and welcome to just answer Dodge. This sounds like 1 of 2 things: 1, a failed ASD relay because of high resistance across the relay's contacts, or 2 a failed PCM (ecm). The ASD relay supplies voltage to the ignition coil and the injectors, and then the PCM pulses the ground circuits of the injectors and coil. Try this: swap out the ASD relay with another like relay (horn, ac, etc.) and then see if that helps. If you still have an issue, check all fuses for poor connections. If she still won't start, suspect a failed PCM.

Hope this information helps, and let me know if you need more assistance with this.

 

Chris

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I have swapped the ASD relay out with the similar relay.... I do have battery voltage to the coil pack and the injectors... I noticed on the scanner it says in the data stream that on the vehicle theft alarm it says yes... I don't know if the is correct... I checked all the grounds and they all are okay.... I suspected the pcm as well... thinking it just isn't suppling enough ground for a strong spark etc... also after all my checking the engine now cranks over like there is no compression , timing marks all still line up.. am thinking that maybe the tappets or lifters just bled down making it seem like there is no compression any thoughts on that?
Expert:  Chris replied 4 years ago.

Hmmm, The no compression thing may be caused by the cylinders being washed down with fuel, like the injectors staying energized. Pull the spark plugs and see if they are wet with fuel. Do this right after cranking the engine and let me know what you find.

 

Chris

Chris, Shop Foreman
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 9975
Experience: ASE and Chrysler Certified Master Tech
Chris and 5 other Dodge Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Chris yes I have pulled the plugs and they were wet I think just from the initial cranking as I was doing my checks.... I do not have the capability of flashing the computer so I had to ship it to the dealer for this to be done...long story short ... I put a timing belt and water pump on this car 3 days before this happened and the customer is wanting his money back for the t-belt and water pump... I am not giving it to him since it is not related I checked the cams lined up still pulled the balancer off and lower cover crank lined up... during my checks I did pull the knee bolster off and found that there was an after market alarm system that had been removed and the wires just twisted together and taped .. one of the wires was exsposed and could of been arched when the tilt steering was moved... I wouldn't think that should arc the computer since it should all be fuse and protected by the relay as well.. but I did write a short note the the dealer with my findings and to let them know that the timing etc was good so I feel if the spark and fuel is restored the engine should fire... any way I appreciate your help ... I am also an ase recertified master mechanic with my L1 , master emission repair licence and my md state inspection license... I just wanted some advice from someone that deals with these cars more often than I .... I have worked at this shop for 19 years... once again thanks for the help I will be excepting your answer! thank you Chris

simon
Expert:  Chris replied 4 years ago.

Hi Chris, You are welcome, and let me know how it goes when you get the PCM back. I am assuming the engine ran after the timing belt and water pump job, and then quit 3 days later. If that is the case, and the marks still line up, then engine mechanical is probably ok. Again, let me know how it goes,

 

Chris

Chris, Shop Foreman
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 9975
Experience: ASE and Chrysler Certified Master Tech
Chris and 5 other Dodge Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes the car ran for 3 days prior to this problem.... and it was cranking fine (good compression) at first .. it is very possible that it gas washed and I am very confident that it is mechanically sound... once again thanks I will let you know what happens with the pcm I am sure that is the problem...
Expert:  Chris replied 4 years ago.

Sounds good, I will look for your reply down the road,

 

Chris

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Chris I have a question... will the crank and cam sensors show sync with the engine only cranking? or does the engine actually have to run before hey will sync? long story short but this car went to the dealer and I told them the whole problem and the and what I had found and that the engine gas washed so compression will be low... of course the went out cranked the engine and called the customer and told them that there was major engine damage.. then told him it would cost 475 dollars just to check it.. of course they didn't want to hear anything I had to say and said they would check it ... so now they want 3200 saying all the valves and guides are bent because it failed a leakdown test... I told them of course it does since it is gas washed then they said it has very low compression.. I told them the same thing... then they said the belt is lined up so I must of put it on wrong bent the valves then put it right...then they said the cam and crank don't sync.. is said i wasn't sure it would with out it running and that if it does it may be due to the pcm being bad... so I asked how they could determine all the valves and guides were bent with out pulling the head and how they could charge 475 dollars for a compression test and leak down test which would be bad due to the gas washing ... and how they could call a customer and tell them it has major engine damage before even testing .. i don't want to bore you .. I was just wondering about the sync.. during cranking..

thanks
simon
Expert:  Chris replied 4 years ago.

Hi Simon, the cam and crank sensors should show "sync" while cranking if they are actually in sync. You say that they said compression was very low, did they give you the actual compression test numbers? Also, I have never seen a sync problem caused by a bad PCM (yet). I see that you said " so I must of put it on wrong bent the valves then put it right..." Do you think you got the belt on wrong at first, cranked it and then re timed the belt? If so, then you may have bent the valves Frown.

 

Chris

 

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Chris , no the belt was on correct from the get go .the dealer was accusing me of putting the belt on wrong and the putting it right before towing it to them for the PCM. I even pulled the top cover , crank pulley , and lower cover just to check everything once it tarted loosing compression... and the the cam marks still pointed right at each other and the crank mark still lined up with the mark on the block... and the car ran for about an hour and a half when I was done and I road tested it and then it was moved around the lot for 2 days before this happened.. I have done hundreds and hundreds of timing belts and chains.. no it was put on right and even the agree it is lined up... it had compression for most of the time I was testing it... it slowly lost it, and the plugs are definatly fouled by fuel, I think the inital crank when I was getting injection pulse was turning all injectors on wide open.. but I never verified this since I only have on noid light for those injectors... the botXXXXX XXXXXne the say is that the valves are bent, proven by a leak down test, which would be inaccurate due to the gas washing .. also the car has 105,000 so im sure there is a little ring wear and cross hatching wear making the gas washing that much eaiser... well with the crank lined up and the cams lined up sync should be there.. all that a side... when coil pack and injector are activated using the scanner they would work regardless . correct? anyway .. they told the customer all valves bent and guides damaged ... now the only way I know of diagnosing this is by pulling the head... not a leak down, I asked them if the leak down was going in the crankcase and there reply was that does not matter.. I told them it does since if it is it just more confirms the gas washing ... I just feel bad for the customer they are screwing him , although we may get our insurance company involved ... only to pay for mechanical problems, not electrical such as the PCM

thanks ,
simon
Expert:  Chris replied 4 years ago.

Maybe you should pull the head yourself and check to see if the dealer is correct?

 

Chris

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Chris, thanks for all your help !!!! I think it is too late for me pulling the head... the dealer has the customer in a tizzy already. I don't know if anyone will really know the answer. I think we will turn it over to our insurance company and let them deal with it.. I already spoke with them and they said if it turns out that the pcm is bad they will not cover it ... but if we decide to go with the insurance company they said they will let me know what they find out... I know it is gas washed and that activating the coils and injectors they would work even if the timing belt was not on the car... and as far as the sync well it fires the injectors and coils off of the cam and crank sensor and this is not happening so it is possible that the computer is screwed... since activating them gives you a very weak pulse you have to cup your hands around the noid light to see anything and the spark is very very weak as well with the tester closed almost all the way down you see a tiny little spark like static electricity .. I will let you know what the out come is and give you a tip or accept your answer again for all your help ....

thanks,
simon
Expert:  Chris replied 4 years ago.

Sounds good Simon, Ley me know, and thank you for the accept!

 

Chris

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hey Chris,
well we turned it over to the insurance company and they actually went over to the dealership yesterday afternoon. They said the head was off the car and they took pictures of the block and the head, and they said the carbon was very wet on top of the pistons but showed no signs of valves hitting the pistons and on the head the valves that were closed with the cams still installed looked closed to them, but they would wait and see what happens once the new head is installed.. well I didn't hear back from , but the customer called this evening saying that the insurance company denied the claim , and that it would cost an additional cost of 1200-1500 for a pcm to be replaced... to me that seems a little high for the pcm but I may be wrong... anyway now the customer wants us to pay the whole thing of course we won't since we told the dealer it need a computer and the timing was fine... they also told him they denied it since they don't see any evidence of bent valves or miss timing.... so I guess a bad pcm can show no sync... I appreciate all your input.. and I on your next answer I will accept it and give your a little more thanks a lot

simon
Expert:  Chris replied 4 years ago.

Hi Simon, Sounds to me like you were correct in setting the valve timing if there is no visual evidence of valves contacting the pistons. As far as the cost of a PCM, that sounds very high to me. A re manufactured PCM should be no more than $300.00, and no more than an hour of labor. You may want to call another dealer and ask them what they charge to replace a PCM on this vehicle ( pretend you are just a regular customer asking around). If you need me to, I can check on the price of a PCM from my dealer. Let me know and I will be happy to do that for you.

 

Chris

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