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Dodgerench
Dodgerench, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 3098
Experience:  30+ years Dodge/Chrysler exp., ASE Master with L1 certification. Driveability/ combustion specialist
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1988 dodge b250: replace fuel..fuel pump..wont start

Resolved Question:

hello need your help got a 1988 dodge b250 i replace relay shut off relay replace fuel pump and still not getting gas to start the van van wont start not getting gas
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
HiCustomer welcome to Just Answer!.

Do you get spark, Ivan?
Does the CHECK ENGINE lamp in the dash do a 2-3 second illumination at key-on?

Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes it getting spark and yes it came on the code said auto shut off relay i replace that relay with a new on and it still not starting
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
That's odd.
The ASD relay supplies power to the coil as well as the injectors and the fuel pump... if the output isn't OK, I wouldn't expect to see output from the coil.

What was the code description or number that you got?
Ed

Edited by Dodgerench on 9/16/2009 at 3:19 AM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
42
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
That's definitely an ASD code... but the flash code method didn't distinguish between problems on the control side or the output side of the relay.

Does this code return immediately after being cleared and the engine cranked?
Is spark healthy enough to jump a 1/2" gap?

Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
not sure i did look i went back to the tank and see if something was loose on not
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hello are you still here
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
Hmmmmmmm...
With good spark available, it means both circuits of the ASD are working properly. What happens AFTER the power leaves the ASD relay won't affect the code 42 generation, so I can't really explain the conflicting reports just yet.

But if we're trying to get the fuel pump to wake up, it just may be necessary to lower the tank to gain access to the connector.

One thing you might try beforehand would be to check the grounding source for the pump, which is located just forward of the tank as it lies in the van on the crossmember support where the fuel lines pass through. You'll find this single wire screwed to the crossmember just to the (vehicle) right of the pass-through. It's a sorry excuse for an electrical ground for something so important, but that's how it's done.

If found to be OK, the next step would be to lower the tank enough to gain access to the electrical connector. I use a motorcylce tie strap, connected to the vehicle frame at the far right ends of the tank and again at the left. Loosen and remove the straps holding the tank up and then slowly lower the tank using the tie straps to regulate the drop. The tank vent hose (1/2" diameter) found on the far left of the tank will have to be removed from the fill tube to allow the drop to take place.

Now accessible, the green/ black wire is your ASD output circuit, one that should show power only when the key is first turned on (one second) or when continuously cranked. This calls for a helper.

If you find power and ground to both be OK... yet the pump does not work... the solution would be to replace the fuel pump. I can't explain the code 42 at this point, but if power and ground are OK... that's all that remains.

Ed

Edited by Dodgerench on 9/16/2009 at 3:43 AM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
when today i replace the wiring harness that come from the back of the van and it come up to the fuel pump wiring there is a groun wire there i connect the ground wire back up is there another ground wire in that area
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
I'm not sure... but the fuel pump ground wire passes right through the fuel line opening at the back of the van, which is the support right next to the tank. You'll find it just to the rear of the axle. Loss of ground anywhere that far back won't cause the code 42 to set, which bothers me somewhat. See what you can find for power transfer to the pump and the grounding point and we'll go from there.

Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
is there a fuse for the fuel pump
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
so there a ground wire coming the fuel pump wire harness
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
I didn't think so, but it warranted a check just in case memory failed me.
No, there's no fuse involved between the ASD and the fuel pump, but there appear to be a couple of connectors along the way. They're not shown for location, but are both 4-connector (square) type connectors.

I believe you'll find one in the cavity behind the right tail lamp lens assembly, possibly accessible from inside the van if it's not finished out. Look for the green/ black wire in a 14-gauge size. THAT'S your ASD output wire.

If you get power that far, you'll need to continue checking all the way to the pump. Disconnecting the harness at a known ASD wire location will separate the ASD circuit between the relay and the pump, allowing ohmmeter use.

Set the meter for 200 ohms and connect the black terminal to a good ground (negative) source. The red lead is touched to the BACK HALF of the connector... the one that's closest to the fuel pump.

If the pump and wiring are good, expect to see less than 20 ohms of resistance. If it's more than that (and probably open), you'll need to continue to the tank connector itself. Pull the tank down a bit (lowering it more on the right) to gain access to the connector. Then test between the green/ black wire on the fuel pump connector and the ASD circuit anywhere inside the van.

As a second test, pounding the bottom-center of the tank while someone cranks the engine to send power to the tank will sometimes wake a weak pump up enough that it can work one more time. This is good for diagnostic purposes only... it's not a fix by any measure! But if it wakes the pump up enough to get the engine running, you simply need a new fuel pump.

I'll have to continue with you tomorrow, Ivan.... it's late here and I have to get some shuteye for tomorrow's work load. By all means write back if you have any problems or questions!

Have a great night,
Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ok talk to you tomorrow
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
Thanks! Write any time.

Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hello this ivan with the dodge van b250 i pull the tank back down there is power only going to the foat no power going to the pump can you help me
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ed are you with me
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
Hi Ivan!
At risk of being annoying... remember that the pump will receive power only for a second at key on... or when the engine is being cranked.

Is this how you tested it? It almost requires a helper.

Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes i had father turn over the motor wild i was test it and i have the switch on and only thing was getting power was the foat
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
Good work!

Since you have spark, the ASD relay must be working. The same feed that supplies the coil and injectors also powers the pump, so the problem will be somewhere AFTER the relay.

Unfortunately, the wiring diagrams from this era weren't as specific for locations of splices and connectors. Let me do some research and I'll try to get back to you within 30 minutes.

Check out Hulu or something while I'm gone...
Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
here is another thing before the van was starting with no problem we put a tow hitch on the back of the van i was on one see my father and uncle on the other side the wire was in between the hitch and cut the wire did find that until yesterday night so i replace the harness wire and we been having this problem
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ok thanks i wait
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
Cool. Did you see any green/ black wires involved with the damage?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
all wire was cut
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
It seems like this would be the place to concentrate your efforts.

The fuel pump feed comes down through the right brake lamp assembly cavity in the van body, so this would be a good place to look for ASD power. The color is still green/ black and will be fed through a 4-way connector in that general area.

If you have power to that point, it becomes a hunt for the point where it's cut or has been cut and spliced to the wrong wire. Get some goooooood lighting to be able to tell the wire colors and even some Windex to clean the dust off the wires for better identification. It seems very, very likely that you'll find your problem back in the hitch area of the van. Coincidences like loss of power to the pump only AND having wires cut at the back of the van don't happen often.

Stick with it, Ivan... you'll find it. Follow the green/ black wire from a source that shows power and you'll be all good. Start in the brake lamp cavity and work from there.

Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
i pull the lamp and i test the wire green and black there power coming but like only going to the foat
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
But that's at the pump... right? That means you need to start backtracking to find the point where power still exists on the circuit. If it was OK just before the wiring was cut, it's almost certain that the problem will be in the same area. Pull the brake lamp out or access the wiring from inside the van (if not finished) to check the ASD feed. If it's good to there, your problem is somewhere below that point and will be very near the wiring problems you described.

If no power is seen at the ASD wire (either side of the connector) at the brake lamp area, we need to look forward on the van, perhaps all the way to the bulkhead connector, where power from underhood is transferred to the inside of the van. It's a matter of isolating and corralling the problem into something you can trace one way or the other. The brake lamp area is a good starting point.

It might be handy to power the ASD continuously for this task. Locate the blue/ yellow wire on the relay and insert a small screwdriver or paper clip attached to a jumper wire into the connector end.

Ground the jumper wire and turn the key on. This should energize the relay just as if the engine was being cranked... saving the battery and making it a one-person job.

Be sure that there are NO fuel lines disconnected to prevent uncontrolled fuel leakage if the pump was to suddenly start working again. Otherwise, this should be perfectly safe.

Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
so you said take a paper clip and jump the blue and yellow when you sy ground so take and add another wire attached to the yellow and blue wire
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
With the key on, the ASD relay will be powered on the control side of the relay. All it's looking for is the control, which is supplied by the PCM as a grounding source. If you short the blue/ yellow wire to battery negative (ground), it will cause the relay to <click> and the circuit will be energized.

You'll hear the click.... then check something like the coil (+) to see that you have power output, just to be sure. This should make things a little easier for you!

Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ok i try that in the morning it get late let try this in the morning
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
Sounds like a plan, Ivan. You'll have better light too!

Catch you later,
Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
having no luck on this van get power to float but not the pump
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
Were you able to locate the pump feed wire back in the right brake lamp cavity?
Is the inside of the van finished or can you see metal walls all the way around?

Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yea check all that everything look good
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
Were you able to find power to the pump at that location?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
only power is coming down it just giving power to the float i dont under stand it should be give it to both should it
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
It should, but that's what we're looking for... the reason why the dark green/ black wire doesn't receive power.

You may need to go to the bulkhead connector to find power first and then we can decide which way to go.

The bulkhead connector is the big square unit with the bolt in the middle. Take a flashlight under the dash and locate the wire, then probe it with a test light or voltmeter with the ASD relay energized to see if power makes it that far.

If power doesn't make it through to the inside of the van, test the underhood side to see if it's present there. You've got a break somewhere... it's just a matter of finding it.

Ed
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ok i try that
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
Great. These things usually require a systematic approach... kind of like the Can you hear me now? guy!
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hey got someone tell me it might be the computer in front of the van underhood
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 4 years ago.
I don't find that likey, Ivan. If you have spark, you should also power the fuel pump since it's the same ASD feed that powers both. Keep looking... you'll find it!

Ed
Dodgerench, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 3098
Experience: 30+ years Dodge/Chrysler exp., ASE Master with L1 certification. Driveability/ combustion specialist
Dodgerench and 12 other Dodge Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hey that green wire still not get power it in that wire but i just cant find were it broken at thank for your help

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