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Petek
Petek, Dodge Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 319
Experience:  I have over 10 years of experience, Im a master ase tech as well as a chrysler tech
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2004 dodge: ram right rear brake..turn signal..brake light

Customer Question

2004 dodge ram right rear brake top light out but turn signal works and other brake light right rear middle works
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
what have you done so far in an attempt to diagnose this issue, have you checked to see if the ciruit board to the tail lamp assembly is getting power on that circuit?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yes swiched it to otherside works fine what is crazy is that the bulb that does not work for brakelight but works for turn signal
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
o.k. what we will do is test the brake light circuit to the circuit board in the rear, we will test it at the circuit board then test it leaving the fuse box, i suspect the Front control module being your problem, howver you will have to test the circuit first. here is a diagram. you will need to test the L54 circuit leaving the FCM, at the integrated power module this should have power leaving the integrated power module when you step on the brakes, if it does not, chances are your FCM is faulty, and believe me i've changed many of them.graphic
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
where is the front controll module located
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
It is bolted onto the side of the IPM which is another word for your fuse box under the hood should be a silver looking box with 4 screws in it on the side of the fuse box.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
i will test it tomorrow and see what i can come up with becuse that lamp out light and buzz is killing me so if there is no power coming out of that then that module is bad
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
Yes, and believe ,e i can relate, one of my customers drove from tennessee with it on. That is one of the most common failures for them, ive changed many of them for that exact failure.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
one last thing is that a dealer item and when i call what do i ask for the front control module
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
Yes it will be a dealer item, many dealers stock it, and you can ask just for the front control module.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok got to power control module but there is 6 or 8 plugs under there not sure witch plug needs tested i see some same color wires
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok figured out the wires no power out of wire when brake is on but when turn signal on it has power for turn signal
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
The L54 circuit should not have any turn signal feed on it what so ever it should be a brake lamp feed only, are you sure you are testing the right wire? It should be pin 41 at the front control module. i would double check to make sure you are testing the right wire should be white with a light green tracer at pin 41 on the front control module.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
i do have power from that it works my middle light bulb on taillight but the top light only works as turnsignal where the other side both are brake unless turn signal is on
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

when im sitting in the truck it's the right taillight

Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
so the circuit leaving the FCM is good, and you are getting power as you should. and you test that same circuit to the taillamp, and at the tailamp does it have power? This issue is very perplexing, because it doesnt make any sense. You can't have power to the circuit board in the rear of the vehicle on the circuit it needs to be on, test the circuit board as being good, and still not have that brake light, unless it is the connector at the circuit board having an intermittent connection.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
if i put a test light in the lamp wiring on the ggod side that works fine has 2 hot wire when brake pressed and then put turn signal on one will blink but other side only one hot when brake pressed and when turnsiganal on the brake lamp that is out work with turnsignal fine
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
o.k. so what is the color of the wire on the bad side, that does not work?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
white with yellow
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.

From the diagram it appears you may have two white with yellow circuits back there the L70 and the L62, then double check to make sure the white and yellow you are talking about does not have power when you have that turn signal on, if it does, you are chasing a ghost.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
white with yellow when turn signal on and test light at brake lamp plug blinks test lamp
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.

o.k. this should not have brake lamp feed, it should only be the white wire with the light green tracer that runs brake lamp feed.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
but the otherside has both brake and lurn sign alon the same pin wire on that side
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
lets find a diagram for the other side. O.k. so on this side your dark green and white carries brake lights, what other circuit carries brake and turn for this side.graphic
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

the white with green wire

Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
so its the white wire with dark green tracer correct?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yes
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
O.k. now i know what is going on here, it was a misread on the diagrams on my part, im glad i took a look at the otherside, the FCM uses the turn signal lamp as a jumper and if you aren't getting the power out of the FCM to that side it means it is no good.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok just wanted to be sure because have to oder fcm and electric can't be returned so i thank you for your help.
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
yeah no problem, the way it works is there is a setting in the computer, and front control module that can turn that circuit on and off for trailer towing, thats what the jumper is for, most trailers arent equipped for stop and turn on the same bulb.
Petek, Dodge Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 319
Experience: I have over 10 years of experience, Im a master ase tech as well as a chrysler tech
Petek and other Dodge Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
i just hooked my camper up and relized taht eletric brake wire does not work so i just need to get that fcm thank you
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
no problem, good luck.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok got new fcm and still haveing problem now my temp gauge on top console is staying at 54 degrees and my avgrege millage not reading right and i had to run ground wire from fcm to ground it out or did not work at all both new and old
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
Are you still having the same tail light problem, or are you refering to the new problems, as the problem you are experiencing?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
still taillight and these problem came onlong before i evan put new box in they have to be cottected to same thing
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
So they were there before you changed the fcm? why didn't you say something earlier? Take a look at the instrument cluster, the inputs for the console come from here, but keep in mind that the mileage takes a while to correct itself once the battery is disconnected, try disconnecting the battery and seeing if this corrects the console issues. I would try disconnecting the battery first, before this, and did you disconnect the battery when you removed and installed the FCM?graphicgraphic
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
it stared after i had talked last time and thought new fcm would fix it yes i dissconect battery but i had to run ground wire from fcm to a ground for it to woork before new box to
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
this is a weird one, so every since you changed the old fcm to the new fcm, you now have to ground both of them correct? if this is the case double check your wiring and make sure there are no plugs pulled or a ground missing, i have a feeling there is a ground wire missing someplace.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
it happen before i got my new box that i had to ground it i will check grounds around fuse box
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.

O.k. check it out and let me know, tell me anything else you find, the next time i will be on is later tonight, around 9:30, let me know anything else you find so we can try to figure this out.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
what colors are the ground wires
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
Here is the pinout of the FCM. let me know if this helps.

INTEGRATED POWER MODULE (FCM) - 49 WAY

CAVCIRCUITFUNCTION
1L44 18WT/TNRIGHT LOW BEAM DRIVER
2L33 18WT/LGLEFT HIGH BEAM DRIVER
3INTERNALFUSED B(+)
4INTERNALFUSED B(+)
5W10 20BRWASHER PUMP MOTOR SENSE
6INTERNALFUSED B(+)
7INTERNALFUSED B(+)
8L34 18WT/GYRIGHT HIGH BEAM DRIVER
9L43 18WT/DBLEFT LOW BEAM DRIVER
10INTERNALFUSED B(+)
11--
12Z117 18BK/WTGROUND
13--
14INTERNALTRAILER TOW LEFT TURN RELAY CONTROL
15INTERNALPARK LAMP RELAY CONTROL
16--
17INTERNALWIPER ON/OFF RELAY CONTROL
18INTERNALFOG LAMP RELAY CONTROL
19L62 18WT/YLRIGHT REAR TURN LAMP DRIVER
20--
21--
22L1 18WT/LGBACKUP LAMP FEED
23--
24--
25--
26--
27Z116 18BK/VTGROUND
28W1 20BR/TNWASHER FLUID SWITCH SENSE
29G31 20VT/LG (DIESEL/SRT)AAT SIGNAL
30Z118 18BK/YLGROUND
31Z117 18BK/WTGROUND
32INTERNALHORN RELAY CONTROL
33--
34INTERNALTRAILER TOW RIGHT TURN RELAY CONTROL
35INTERNALADJUSTABLE PEDAL RELAY CONTROL
36--
37INTERNALWIPER HIGH/LOW RELAY CONTROL
38D25 20VT/PKPCI BUS
39--
40--
41L54 18WT/LGRIGHT STOP LAMP DRIVER
42L61 18WT/LGLEFT FRONT TURN LAMP DRIVER
43L53 18DG/WTLEFT STOP LAMP DRIVER
44L63 18WT/DGLEFT REAR TURN LAMP DRIVER
45L60 18WT/TNRIGHT FRONT TURN LAMP DRIVER
46G180 20 VT/YL (DIESEL/SRT)SENSOR GROUND
47Z118 18BK/YLGROUND
48INTERNALFUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN-START)
49W7 20BR/GYWIPER PARK SWITCH SENSE

graphic
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok i put test light on the ground with out module conected pin 12 pin30 pin 31 pin 47 did not light test light had test light hooked to power and probed each ground
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
O.k. there is a g104 ground location that is at the front left of the engine compartment, unfortunatly it does not give me an exact location but it is the only ground section there, you can inspect it to make sure there is no break in the wire there, and i would also advise ohm testing it to the module. and make sure you are using a needle or t-pin to test the circuits to the FCM, otherwise the test light may spread the pins.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yes it's right by the fuse box under hood mounted to fender it looks good that where i had to run a wire from fcm to there for fcm to work
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
then i would do an ohm test from there to the connectors on the fcm and see if you have an open somewhere.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok i'll try taht tomoorow
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
o.k. let me know.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
how should i test it positive to bat and neg to fcm
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
test it from the ground bolt to the negatives going to the FCM
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

pin 12 pin 27 nothing

30 31 at 0

46 nothing

XXXXXbelow 0 of chart
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.

O.k. so basically what you are telling me is that you have an open connection at those circuits, you should be reading some resistance, but if you are reading the same as if you have the electrodes of the ohm meter connected to nothing then you have an open circuit.

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
how do i find that
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
you will have to inspect that ground and the connections to it, what you can do to see if you can temporarily connect the ground to that circuit, is to strip the wire casing back a little near the fcm connection, and attach a wire from it to a known good ground such as another ground bolt or the battery ground and see if you now have ground going to the fcm connection. this is called a wire overlay, try this and let me know what happens, if you have an open this should create a temporary ground.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
i tried grounding them wires but nothing the only way pcm turns on is wire from screw on pcm to ground do you think it might be fuse box
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
Yes, ive seen it before where the fuse box had an internal short, its pretty common, we've seen many issues with them as well, they exhibit different symptoms almost all the time, there's really no way to test except by what you are doing.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok found the problem for the ground for pcm got htat fixed but still no right brake light outside temp ready 130 and and milage per gallon on console resets everytime key is turned off
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
check fuse 17 and 28 in the underhood fuse box and make sure they have power on both sides, check it with a test light. this is the fused output from the ignition switch and the battery power to the console, reference the diagram from a few questions earlier for the pin diagram and circuit I.D.'s
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
17 is a spare 28 good
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.

This has me thinking if you are not experiencing a short in that fuse box, basicaly what is happening is the overhead is dropping power as if it was a battery disconnect every time you turn the key. you may want to pull the overhead down, and examine the harness there, and see what power drops off with a test light, or see if there is a circuit going to it, that is neglecting to give it power at all.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
still no right top brake lighjt new fuse box
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.
this is a very trouble some issue here, you covered the fuse box, you covered the fcm, have you tested the brake light circuit leaving the fcm, and at the tailight again since you changed those parts?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
nothing at taillight do you think the brake swicth could be bad
Expert:  Petek replied 5 years ago.

You would have no brake light on the other side either, have you checked the output at the fcm?

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Petek
Petek
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I have over 10 years of experience, Im a master ase tech as well as a chrysler tech