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Dodgerench
Dodgerench, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 3057
Experience:  30+ years Dodge/Chrysler exp., ASE Master with L1 certification. Driveability/ combustion specialist
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i have a 2001 dodge durango. when starting up - it takes quite

Customer Question

i have a 2001 dodge durango. when starting up - it takes quite awhile before the engine will fully turn over - as if it's not getting enough gas. similarly, when idling at a traffic light i have to continually give the vehicle gas or it will stall - any ideas?
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 5 years ago.
HICustomer welcome to Just Answer!.

Do you have any problems with slow cranking (starter operation)?
Does the battery seem to be a bit weak,Customer
Does the difficulty in starting the engine happen every time?
Or is it OK if you shut the engine off and immediately restart?
Do you ever see a CHECK ENGINE lamp illumination while driving?

Talk shortly,
Ed
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Thanks for the quick reply.
No - no slow cranking/starter operation
No - the battery does not seem weak.
Yes it absolutely happens every time
It is OK after attempting to start - not succeeding - or
shutting off and restarting -
Yes - the check engine light has been on lately - but not
constantly - sometimes it's on - sometimes not -

also the issue w/idling at a light and having to give it gas
constantly -- AND when accelerating quickly - say on a merge
onto the highway - it hesitates before it catches -

hope this helps -
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 5 years ago.
It does!

One more thing. I neglected to ask you which engine you have. Is it the 4.7?

I'd also like you to retrieve the code that's set, something you can do using the code-read feature built into the vehicle electronics.
Turn the key from off to on three times (don't crank), leaving it ON. Watch the odometer window for code display, followed by "P-done" when the feature is completed whether codes were displayed or not.

Let me know what you find.
Ed
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Ed,
It's a Dodge V8 Maximum - but I can't find size anywhere -

The code is:
PO 320
PO 700
PO 308
P Done
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Ed,
I found 2 photos of engine types and it seems like the
engine in this 2001 Durango is the 4.7
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 5 years ago.
Thanks. If the 8th digit of the VIN is N, it's the 4.7 engine. The 5.9 is a Z. We're gonna roll with the 4.7 engine, but if you find something different, let me know. I'll send this now and start another post to give you time to check.

Ed
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
It's an N
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 5 years ago.
Those codes you sent can be trouble, t. I'll start with a brief description of each...

P0320 is an indication that your PCM (engine controller) hasn't seen a proper crankshaft position sensor signal at some point. Crank signal is used like points and condenser in the old days... it supplies ignition reference signal for spark and injector timing.

P0308 is a misfire code, indicating something has been seen with cylinder #8. We won't know much more than that without an engine scan, where Freeze Frame data will be stored that was recorded at the time of the misfire. You hadn't mentioned any engine roughness or loss of power, so it might be a side effect of the P0320 code.

P0700 is an alert to tell you that there is a code stored in the transmission controller, which we won't be able to access. That pretty much seals the issue of whether you have the 4.7 engine or not... the 5.9 trannie codes are accessible because they live in the same box as the engine (PCM), where the 4.7 has a separate controller.

Your long crank time/ difficulty starting every time is consistent with loss of crankshaft signal, which puts the PCM into Plan B... disregarding the signal and running off the camshaft position sensor signal only. It's rare to see a crank sensor that's completely failed, but it looks like you might have one.

The transmission code that we can't see may be a direct result of lost crank signal, worded ENGINE SPEED SENSOR (actual P-code escapes me). It's a common companion code to the P0320 on the engine side.

Stalling at stops may disappear with the replacement of your crank sensor... but may not. If the transmission doesn't understand what's going on, it may be applying too much drag to the engine, drawing it down. Lack of a crank sensor signal won't do your engine controller any favors either.

I'd start with the crank sensor and see what happens. They can be a bear to replace, something you might not want to mess with.

The crank sensor is located on the lower right hand engine block, back near the transmission. It uses the three wire connector and you can see it through the right side wheel well.

The problem getting the sensor out, which may be held in place with rust. The factory didn't paint the hole drilled in the side of the block for sensor installation, which left the cast iron exposed to the elements. Rust develops and begins swelling the hole, trapping the sensor inside. Even patience and lots of WD-40 isn't enough to keep the sensor top (plastic) from breaking off, leaving the stub in the block. That's when it gets ugly.

There isn't room for a slide hammer and you'll have nothing to grab at that point. I use a 7/8" hole saw, one that I've trimmed (smoothed) the outer cutting surfaces to prevent excessive damage to the engine block. It exactly fits the hole once the outer burrs are smoothed and still cuts the soft plastic body of the sensor and ambient rust easily. When it gets to the O-ring seal, the whole thing will break loose and come out with the hole saw.

Even with minimal block sealing surface damage, I use some silicone engine RTV sealer when installing the new sensor to prevent leakage.

Give the crank sensor a try and let me know if you still have idle issues. I'll be glad to help.

Talk later,
Ed
Dodgerench, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 3057
Experience: 30+ years Dodge/Chrysler exp., ASE Master with L1 certification. Driveability/ combustion specialist
Dodgerench and 4 other Dodge Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Well that took a few minutes to digest.
Thanks for this - even though I wish the solution was easier.
I'll schedule w/a Dodge Service center and bring your information
with me to the appt -

Thanks again-
Mike
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 5 years ago.
That would be great. Write back when you have news!

Ed
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Ciao Ed,
Ok, so I went to a Dodge dealer. They charged me $249.00 to give me the same codes that you helped determine yesterday. A bit frustrating,
but that's how dealers work. It turns out the sensor is actually a recall issue for that model of Durango - so I won't be charged for the sensor. They also are replacing the spark plugs. I really appreciate your help. It gave me solid direction to use at the dealer.
Thanks very much for the great advice!
Mike
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 5 years ago.

Hey, that's great news!

I'm not aware of a crank sensor recall for this model...send me the number if you think of it once the paperwork is done. Information like that is very helpful to me here... and here at the dealership.

 

I think you should be in good shape now, Mike. If you have any problems or questions, you know where to find me!

 

Thanks,

Ed

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ed,
i just want to make certain that you received my...
i forget what the website titles it - but essentially
a tip [$10] for the great advice
my receipt only acknowledged the base rate and i wanted
to make certain you were getting the extra $ - not like it's
a lot of cash - but i wanted to acknowledge the great service -
so thanks again -
oh
and looking at my receipt - perhaps the recall is not the sensor itself - it says this:
A. customer states vehicle has 3 codes [308, 700, 320] verified customer concern, found cylinder 8 misfire and crank sensor fault. Swapped spak plugs and found misfire moved--performed diag for crank sensor and found shorted. removed and replaced spark plugs--ordered crank sensor-customer to return tomorrow for the crank sensor and will owe $143.10
B customer states recall G28
Cause: recall G28
   CS G28
        589 WS
      1 CBXG280 Bracket Gearshift        [N/C]
Installed the gear shifter lever blocker

and that's about it...
thanks again Ed!
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 5 years ago.
Hi Mike.
I hadn't realized you'd included a bonus when I wrote, but it did make it... and it's much appreciated! Thanks.

The G28 is very familiar; I've done about 50 of those to date. Thanks for checking for me, I'd hate to have missed a crank sensor recall! Of course... it'd find me eventually. =/

The cylinder #8 misfire still concerns me a bit. Only time will tell, but it might come back to haunt you. I don't mean to jinx things, it's just uncommon for a spark plug to be a misfire issue with the 4.7 engine.

Hey, if they haven't turned your MIL off yet, have 'em copy the freeze frame data for the P0308 and put it on the next RO.

This thread will stay open for as long as we need it, Mike, so feel free to write back any time.

Thanks again!
Ed

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
thanks ed -
i copied this last reply and highlighted the MIL and RO note -
i don't really know what MIL and RO are - but assuming the dodge
dealership should -
good wishes,
m-
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Ed,
I had one other thought - I noticed in the owner's manual
that you shouldn't use gas w/ethanol w/the 4.7 engine.
Is it possible this is related to the mis-firing?
It's not like there's a lot of options for non-ethanol gas
these days - but it did catch my attn.
If you get a chance - can you tell me what MIL and RO stand for
too? thanks again-
m-
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 5 years ago.
Sorry! MIL is short for malfunction indicator lamp, another word for the CHECK ENGINE lamp. I forget what I've written earlier sometimes... bear with me.
RO is mechanic talk for repair order, another thing that escaped my language bin!

Ethanol has been acceptable in a 10% concentration in any Chrysler vehicle since the vapor lock days of the early 80s. It was absolute death back then in high altitude regions like here, but doesn't have any serious downsides in the fuel injected era. You'll see slightly lower MPG with anything that has ethanol, but cold start emissions are improved and it keeps farmers working. A single cylinder misfire (especially at the lower side of the rail) can't be blamed on ethanol, especially if it only picks on that one cylinder.

My concern with the P0308 is that they're set at different engine loads and temperatures, which the Freeze Frame will record. Misfires are a whole new science since the Monitor went online back in 96, sometimes being too sensitive and setting codes for problems that really aren't problems. I just figure that if the information is available, it would be to our advantage to have it on hand, should the problem pop up again.

Good luck tomorrow!
Ed
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ed -
u rock!
thanks!
m-
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 5 years ago.
Thanks MIke... you're too kind!

I don't want to close this question because we still have issues pending, but it shouldn't be floating on our "Open List"... so I'm gonna send this back to you as an Answer. I can't tell you to NOT to accept (JA policy) but it's not my intent. If you see me push the Answer button from here on, it's just to take the thread off the List.

We can keep it open and somewhat private that way.

Have a great Tuesday, hope things go well!
Ed
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Ciao Ed,
so i was quoted $140 for the sensor change out
got over to the dealer shop early hoping to get
to work for the day - it's now 7:30 - they still
have my vehicle [ i gave up around 2pm and they gave
me a lift home] at 5pm they called to say it would be
another $384.--...they said at first they couldn't get
it out and were using a drill - i felt like i should have
handed them your email - but they're all mechanics and
i didn't want to present myself like a jerk - they also
said their machine couldn't record the code you suggested
[for that i did give them your email ]

thanks for all the help - i just called dealer and they said
it was done -
mike
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 5 years ago.
Crap. I was hoping it wouldn't come to that. I totally love the 4.7 engine, but this one point is just getting to be a real bother.

Thanks for the update, Mike. I suuuuure appreciate the additional info!

Ed

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