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sprinkles08
sprinkles08, Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep master tech
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 16491
Experience:  ASE Master and Advanced Certified, Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep Master Certified, Trans and Hybrid Specialist
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1998 plymouth grand voyager, it overheated and I waited for

Customer Question

1998 plymouth grand voyager, it overheated and I waited for it to cool, added coolant, and when I went to start it nothing. No kinds of noise or anything. Is there a reset button, and if so where is located.
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.

Hi. How hot did it get?

How long did it overheat for?

How low was the coolant?

How was it running when you shut it off?

When you try to start it what does it do, does the starter engage?

Does it sound like it wants to run at all?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

1.) It didn't get really hot, stopped the minivan and there was some steam. The temperature gauge was not to the max.

2.) It overheated for about 3-4 minutes and cooled off the radiator with a water as soon as it began steaming.

3.) I suspect the radiator cooling fans were not working because I did not notice the fans were on. The fans were not on when I opened the hood to check.

4.) It was running the same as it normally would, I shut it off and turned it back up again and it started running again, and I let the water run on the radiator for a bit. After about 4 hours I refilled the radiator with antifreeze. I went to turn the ignition key on to start it and now it doesn't do anything, no noise, no clicking noise, nothing. The engine is not turning at all there is no contact at all to turn the engine.

 

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
Do you have headlights that are nice and bright? Do you have a voltmeter to do some testing with?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Also I checked the power distribution box and I took off the memory fuse and then put it back, then checked to see if it was bad, it wasn't so I put it back and tried to start it up again and nothing. Then I pressed the button behind the flashing red light for the remote lock but nothing happened.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
Ok. Are the headlights bright when you turn them on? Do you have a voltmeter?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Yes, the headlights are good and yes I do have a voltmeter
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
Ok. Lets start by checking the battery voltage just to be sure. You said you checked the power distribution center-did you check all fuses there-check all of those, and in the box under the dash on the driver's side. Let me know what you find. Does anything else on the van work? does anything come on inside the van when you turn the key on? Do you have a remote start on this van?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
The battery is good and i've been checking the fuses and they are fine. Everything else in the car works like the headlights, the only thing I noticed was the oil warning light is on when I turn the key, I checked the oil and it's low so i'm going to put in oil. Also, because I noticed the radiator fan wasn't on when it was hot, can it be the cooling sensor? And if it is where is it located. It's not a remote start but it has the remote lock.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.

What is the battery voltage, test it with the meter. So everything inside is normal-cluster and radio and all?

 

The oil light will be on any time the key is on and the engine is not running, nothing to worry about.

 

You probably have a failed cooling fan relay that caused the whole problem. Its mounted to the frame rail under the air filter box, held on with 2 8mm screws.

 

When you turn the key on without trying to start your engine, does the engine light come on and go out, or come on, go out, then flash?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
The engine light doesn't even come on when you turn the key.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.

Ok. With your voltmeter, unplug the tps at the throttle body. Check for 5v on two of the wires with the key on. If you don't find any voltage, the engine controller is not awake. Just on a hunch, pull the engine controller connectors. Its the module next to the pdc. I wonder if you have have gotten water in there when you were spraying the radiator. If you did, I think I would let it dry overnight with it unplugged and see what happens in the morning. If you have an air compressor you can gently blow out the connector and the module and see what happens.

 

If its not that, we still have a really big range of possibilities here, but hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

So, i'll let it dry overnight and let you know what happened in the morning.

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
Ok, sounds great.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Ok so i've tried everything but still the car does nothing, even after replacing the radiator fan relay

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
Ok. Turn the key on and unplug the throttle position sensor from the throttle body. Check for 5v at two of the wires with the key on and see what you get. When you turn the key on do you hear the fuel pump run, or relays click in the pdc?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
After I do this test and if I don't get any response what would the next step be?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.

If you've got voltage there we know the pcm is at least partially awake. From there go to the starter solenoid wire and check for power when you turn the key to start.

 

If you don't have voltage I'll have you check all the pcm powers and grounds to see if its getting everything it needs to wake up.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I'll try and see what happens tomorrow because until now it still has no power.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
Ok.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I checked the pts and got 5v, no noise from the pdc or the fuel pump after turning the key. Got no noise from anywhere. Could it be a fuse that isn't letting power go through because there's no power at all. If it's a fuse which one could it be, there are the regular fuses and there are also some square block ones because all this started from the engine overheating. Or could it be an electrical relay 'cause something is not letting the power go through to the starter.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
Check for 12v at the positive battery cable at the starter, and check for 12v on the small solenoid wire at the starter while you are trying to crank the engine. Let me know what you see. Does the shifter position show normal on the instrument cluster? does it change when you move the shifter?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

I checked the bolts on the starter solenoid and it doesn't have any power and everything is normal on the cluster. I recently found an article where the radiator fan stopped working and the radiator fan relay needs to be changed, which I already did, and the radiator has to be flushed and also the pcm has to be reprogrammed. I also found out there was a recall for these minivans from the year 1998 because of this problem because it had problems with the radiator fan. Could this be the problem? Might the pcm need to be reprogrammed?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
CustomerI sent a question yesterday and have not receivd. an answer yet . there is 12v at starter sylnoid. what is the next step?. there is no noise anywhere fuel pump_pcm_or cluster.changes .
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.

Reprogramming the pcm won't help your no start.

Lets check the pcm powers and grounds next. In the black connector check for:

pin 10-black/tan-ground

20-white/black-12v with key on

In the gray connector:

pin 46-red/white-12v

50-black/tan-ground

 

If you find all of this stuff to be ok, jump the starer solenoid while everything is plugged in with the key on, and see if it starts.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
suki786_I checked the 4 pins and there is 12v on pins 20_46__and 10_50 there is 0 resistance,checked the resistance with neg.battery post body chassis and is ..08 on 20k ohms.have not done the starter yump yet could itbe the grownd and if it is what needs tobe done_or should I do the yump start first?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
You have verified the pcm powers and grounds, so it should be awake. If its awake, it should start when you jump the starter.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Customer_upon on reviewing everything that we have done I've found that I did'not checked the small red wire at the starter sylinoid. I only did the thick wire. when jumping the starter I dicconected the small wire and gave juice to the sylinoid prong and the engine turn over but did'not start.could it be because of the red small wire not having juice and if so what else can I do?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.

This is really starting to sound like a bad engine controller. You've got the powers and grounds to make it work, and you'vejumped the starter and cranked the engine, it should have started. This coupled with the fact that it won't crank, I'm really doubting the pcm.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
suki786_there is no voltage at the small wire at the starter sylinoid .is there a fuse or relay for the astarter ,what else can I check to get voltage to the sylinoid?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
The pcm controls the starter relay. Even if you did have power from the relay at that wire, we have proved that if the starter would run when you turn the key, the pcm still won't start the van.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
suki786_do you have anymore ideas on what to check or do to get it to run again ,I need to get juice to the fuel pump and starter?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
I'm at the point where I am ready to blame the pcm. It sends power to the pump and starter. Everything we have tested points to a bad pcm. I cannot give you a promise that's what it is though. Your problem is a very strange one, one that may need a technicXXXXX XXXXXds on to be 100% sure.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
suki786_one last question I found a pcm in junkjard on a same type car if I installed it in my car are they all programed the same? thanks.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
Maybe. If it is the same engine you are covered there. The only problem is if one van or the other has the factory security. If the donor van did have it, and yours does not, installing that pcm would be fatal. It will import the security from the other van, and teach your van that is has security when it doesn't. This will cause the van to start and die a few times, and then not crank at all. The only way to remedy that problem, would be to replace the body controller and the pcm at the same time with the battery disconnected, both with new units from the dealer. This is why it is easy to make a $1000 mistake by blindly swapping in a used pcm. It is not uncommon at all for someone to do this.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

One more question, I bought a manual for the minivan and re-did all the tests you've instructed me to do before, and I found that pin #20 on the black connector to the pcm does not have 12 volts of power and from what i've seen in the diagrams in the manual, it has p.t.c. fuse or breaker and I don't know where that one is. Can you please tell me where it is located, is it below the steering wheel or p.d.c and it looks like maybe this is the problem because there is no voltage to the fuel pump, to the check engine lamp, the engine starter cylinoid. Where is the p.t.c. located, and hopefully this will be it. Or is there anything else that interferes with getting voltage to pin #20.

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
It comes from PTC 1 in the junction block, this is the fuse box under the dash. It could be no power from there or it could be the wire is broken between the box under the dash and the pcm. It sounds like you are almost there. You should be able to power this wire up and get the van to run if that is the only problem.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
suki.786_so far I have voltage at pins 20 &46 but nothing happend,upon checking fuses and ralays found that there is no volts at the starter fuse at fuse box under the dash also there is no volts at the pdm starter relay at pin#45 of relay plug in it only has volts at pin #30.can you please tell me how I can juice up,or does the juice comes from the pcm? thanks for your help.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.

Double check the grounds at the pcm. the pcm turns on the starter relay. It sounds like we are back in the same place we were at before-you have the right inputs to the pcm but it won't crank and won't start. We did even jump the starter and when it cranked the engine it still woulnd't start, pointing more blame to the pcm.

 

The starter relay should have power at pin 30, power at pin 86. It should have ground at pin 85 while you are cranking the engine. This is the circuit controlled by the pcm. The pcm grounds this wire to turn on the relay and turn the starter.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
suki786_checked for ground pins 10&50 and it has resistance at pcm connectors I also grounded pin #45 at relay and the engine turns but does not start ,I'also did not hear fuel pump turning on.if the pcm is gettig ground but the relays are not could the final blame be on the pcm.?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
Yes, that's what I've been thinking. It has what it takes to go to work, but is not working. Lets try one more thing before we condemn it, just to make sure we don't have a wiring or power distribution center problem. find the starter relay driver wire coming from the pcm. Its a tan wire in pin 8 of pcm connector one. Try to start it and see if this wire grounds right at the pcm. If not, I'm ready to condemn the pcm.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
suki786_I checked pin#8 but color of wire is grn. should I ground it?.what also did was grouded pin #45 fuel pump relay,and fuel pump worked.so looks like there is a problem with the gound. and tan color wire is at pin #41 or so.? thanks.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 5 years ago.
The problem with the ground to the starter relay and the fuel pump relay is the pcm. The pcm is what supplies ground to both of these relays to turn them on. If the pcm doesn't work, you'll never have ground at either of these relays.

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