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RIP
RIP, Lead Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 5591
Experience:  ASE Certified Master Technician, L1 Adv Level, Ca Smog License, Chrysler Aftermarket Training.
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1997 dodge dakota: a 3.9 v-6 and auto trans I..fuel pump..coil

Resolved Question:

I have a 1997 dodge dakota with a 3.9 v-6 and auto trans I put a new fuel pump in it and it worked fine for about 2 weeks and then it just shut down. I put another fuel pump in but I can''t get power to it and also can''t get spark from the coil. I tested the coil and relays and they test out fine. My question is on the auto shut off is there a switch or something that I need to reset, if so where would it be located at?
Submitted: 6 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Hi, welcome to Just Answer.

  1. How many miles are on this Dakota?
  2. Does the check engine lamp come on with the key in the ON position?

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Reply to RIP's Post: The milage is 138,541 and the check engine light comes on when you first turn the key on and then goes off
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Do you have a voltmeter to check for voltage to the coil Dark Green orange striped wire?

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
yes checked it and there is no power. it is like someone turned off the main power to the engine the starter will turn over
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Alright, try switching out the ASD relay in the underhood fuse/relay box, with the A/C relay and see if you get power to the coil...if so, than see if the engine will fire. If not, let me know and we'll test from there.

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
already swapped them and it didn't make any difference
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Alright...could you remove the ASD relay and probe all the terminals for voltage? How many have around 12 volts with the key ON?

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
two of them had 12 volts with the relay out and the key on
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Alright, put the relay back in and have some one turn the ignition key on and off, place you finger on the relay, does it feel or do you hear it *click*.

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
yes I can feel it click
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Allright...take a piece of wire and shove it into one of the two terminals that didn't show any voltage in our last test. Place the relay in, and it will further shover the wire and hold it in there. Take your meter and measure for 12 volts on that wire while someone cranks the car. If it has voltage, we're good. If not, remove the relay and place the wire in the last spot and take the reading again.

One of those terminals is the power supply to the coil, injectors, etc. The other is the computer ground signal to the ASD relay. We know the ground signal is good becasue there is 12 volts to the two terminals AND the relay clicks. So once we determine if 12 volts leaves the relay we'll know this is a bad connection between the relay and the components. See the wirng schematic below to follow along, I think our problem lies at Joint Connector #2, which is inside the Power Distribution Box there.

graphic

 

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
One of the terminals now shows 12 volts with the key on the other shows about 199 while cranking the motor but nothing with just the key on
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Is this with the relay intalled or with the relay removed? Also is that number 1.99 volts?

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
yes that's with the relay installed. 199 with the engine cranking 1.4 with just the key on
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Alright, lets do this...can you run a wire from the battery positive to the Dark Green/ Orange wire on the coil and splice it in. Buy one of those fuse holders, and place a 30 amp fuse in the wire so incase there's a short, the fuse will blow. After the wire is in place, see if the engine will run...if so, we know this is definitly the problem and we'll go back to issolating the power supply to the ASD.

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
if this works and I get current to the coil will my fuel pump work? Is it all connected in some way?
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

That's what I believe, but the ASD circuit and the fuel pump relay circuit do not share any common areas, except they are both signals to the engine computer. Adding power to the coil will also power everything the ASD is supposed to operate, and I've had wiring problems with the ASD before so I think it may be your only problem...but we'll know if the truck runs or not. If it doesn't than the connection problem for the fuel pump relay and ASD relay may be in the PDC box where they're connected into. Below is the schematic for the fuel pump relay. What we'll do is figuer the ASD circuit out and repair it and if this also takes take of the fuel pump relay output - great, if not we'll trace down the fuel pump relay problem too.

graphic

 

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hooking the wire between the battery and the coil gave me power to the coil but no spark and the fuel pump did not come on
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Alright, can you pull out the fuel pump relay and check to see how many terminals have voltage, as you did with the ASD relay. Also, on the relay there shoul be the numbers 86, 87, 85 and 30...can you tell me which of these terminals on the ASD relay had the 1.4 volts with the ignition key ON? Was it terminal #30?

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
2 of the terminals have 12 volts with relay out and key on and #30 is the one with1.4 volts with key on
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Can you check the voltage accross fuse ## (rated 30 amps) in the same PDC box? Check both terminals of the fuse with a voltmeter.

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
the use 1 side was 12.40 volts the other side just kept running up. I pulled all the relays except the asd and fuel and they are not switching with the key on and if I put one of the other relays in they still won't click
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Could you check all the fuses in the PDC and see if any others are reading the same? Also what brand voltmeter are you using? Is it analog or digital?

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
all the fuses are reading the same The voltmeter is a radio shack digital
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

When you say all the fuses are reading the same you mean that the voltage is fluctuating? Or at 1.4 volts? Also, if you place the meter directly on the battery, what is the reading?

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
I pulled the fuses not the relays and one side on all of the is 12.30 -12.45 volts the other side just keeps climbing. The battery is at 12.35 volts
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Alright, you should be able to take a measurement with the fuses installed, there are two metal tips at the top of each fuse which you can place your meter probe on, while the fuse is inserted. See if the reading is 12.30-12.45 volts, if it is, than measure the ASD relay terminal 30 one more time and see if it's 12.30-12.45 volts...if not - we have a break in the wiring under the PDC box; and this may be what's affecting the fuel pump operation as well.

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
ok if the asd system shuts the truck down shouldn't there be a way to reset the asd?
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

No, the ASD is simply a relay which protects the circuit. The ASD circuit includes the fuel injectors, ignition coil, and some sensors...the fuel pump is on it's own circuit because it's a higher amperage motor. The only two common areas both of these circuits share is the computer itself and the power supply from the battery to the PDC box.

We need to eliminate the idea that there is a "reset" of any type on the truck for anything...the only reset there truly is, is the computer through a scan tool or battery disconnect for resetting the idle and fuel trim values. If we are loosing power to one of the ASD terminals there is a hard wiring or connection problem under the PDC box that may also be interfering with the fuel pump relay as well. Electrical problems like this can even be a nightmare for a experienced automotive electrician, but that's also why they would charge anywhere from 2.0-8.0 hours to rectify this.

I think we're close to a solution, if you were measuring the voltage with the fuse removed before, we weren't getting a correct reading. So with the fuse installed if we have around 12 volts on each side, yet only 1.4 volts on the #30 ASD terminal...you need to unbolt the PDC and look under neath at the wiring connections. It's a mess of wires under there and can become very confusing...so we need to take our time and figure out why the connection between the fuse and the ASD #30 terminal has that voltage drop. At the same instance we can test the wiring under the fuel pump relay as well. It seems as though if we power the fuel pump separately and the ASD Dark Green/Orange wire...the truck should run. I had a similar problem a few months back on a 1500 Dodge truck and low and behold it was a bad connection at the fuse under the PDC box...but this customer didn't have the fuel pump issue.

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Ok the wire from the fuse to the relay on the #30 terminals on both the asd and fuel pump relays are reading 11.90 volts
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

With the fuel pump relay removed, jumper terminals 87 and 30 with a piece of wire. turn the key on, can you hear the fuel pump running? Should use a 10 guage wire, there's a lot of current through this circuit.

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
I tried unplugging the connector to the computer and when I did if you turn the key on the fuel pump would run, but when I reconnected it it wouldn't run. now I tried the wire between the 2 terminals and the relay for the asd would not quit running so I put the relay back in and now the fuel pump will run with the key on, but the relay for the asd will not click and the fuel guage does not work
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Sounds like there's a bad connection at the computer harness or disturbing it there, caused a connection at the PDC. How about if you now remove the ASD and jumper it between the #30 and #87 terminals, will the fuel pump run and the engine fire becuase we have power to the coil and fuel pump pressure?

While the engine runs (if it does) wiggle the wiring at the computer and see if the engine dies.

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Now the only way the fuel pump will run is with the connector to the computer unplugged and the asdwill not make the truck run with the wire between the two terminals
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

So keep the computer plugged in...jumper the ASD and the Fuel pump relay both...does it run than?

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
with the computer plugged in and the relays jumped it will not start and the fuel pump will not run
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

It may be that the battery is getting weak now, do you have a charger that you can place it on? A weak battery can cause these type of electrical changes. We need to know before digging further into it.

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
the battery is charging
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Alright, after the battery charges, be sure the negative cable is tight and follow the negative cable to the battery and be sure it is not corroded or loos on the body or block...ground problems can also cause various electrical faults. After the battery charge and ground check, keep the ignition key on and wiggle the computer wire harness and the harness going into the PDC, listen for the relays to start clicking indicating the wiggling of the harness is causing the wires to make contact somewhere.

Rip

I'll be offline for a couple of hours, so let me know the results when you can.

 

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
the battery is charged and it is still doing the same thing. if I unplug the connector to the computer than th efuel pump will run and the relay for the asd will buzz without shutting off, but when I plug the computer back up nothing. and when I wire across th relays nothing happens. But if I wire across with the relay installed than the relay buzzs
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
I checked the groung on the battery and everything seems fine there. I turned the key on and wiggled the connectors and the wire harness running between the computer and the pdc and the relays still would not click. Is there a possibility that my computer has gone bad?
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

Well it does sound like the computer is playing a large role in this problem, and it may very well be the root cause. But I personally haven't had the computer cause the ASD and the fuel pump relay to not trigger. Do you have access to a code reader to check for diagnostic codes? Is the check engine lamp still comming on when you turn the ignition key on?

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
I will have to get a code reader from autozone. The check engine light comes on for about a second when I first turn the key on and then it goes off. And since I have owned the truck I have never had the light come on. I traced the wires in the pdc and each end was reading the same voltage
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

What voltage were the wires going into the PDC reading? And can you describe those wire colors?

Rip

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
green/orange-11.90 grey which ran from the fuse to the relay-11.90 Than there was the ones that ran to the wire harness and the ones that ran the fuel relay and fuse and they were right at 11-12 volts. Now the only way any of the relays will click is when I unplug the connector closest to the fire wall of the truck. But as you know the truck won't run without the computer
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.

This is the computer your disconnecting - correct?

graphic

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
yes that is the one.
The connector that I unplug is the one closest to the firewall of the truck
Expert:  RIP replied 6 years ago.
Can you see if one of the wires going into that connector is the Dark Green/Orange stripped wire?

Rip
RIP, Lead Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 5591
Experience: ASE Certified Master Technician, L1 Adv Level, Ca Smog License, Chrysler Aftermarket Training.
RIP and 2 other Dodge Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Just thought I would let you know that if you have anyone come in with this problem, check the crankshaft position sensor. It will shut down the coil, the fuel pump, and cause the asd to activate.Thank you for all of your help

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