How JustAnswer Works:

  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.

Ask Leo Your Own Question

Leo
Leo, Auto Service Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 770
Experience:  2005 Dodge ASE master technician of the year
Type Your Dodge Question Here...
Leo is online now
A new question is answered every 9 seconds

2004 dodge hemi 5.7L engine has stumble and rough idle ...

Customer Question

2004 dodge hemi 5.7L engine has stumble and rough idle upon first initial start when cold (colder temperature)
Submitted: 6 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi, and welcome to Just Answer,

Have you tried anything to fix this problem yet? There are several updates for the engine controller for 04 Rams that address rough idle / stumbles upon cold starts.

The fix is generally a flash update for the engine controller to correct some calibration issues with the electronic throttle control system.

The exception is if you get no throttle response at all (step on the gas, truck just idles, and the ETC / check engine lights come on. In this case it will require a throttle body.

If they have updated the software in the truck already, I would recomend cleaning the throttle body. I have to clean mine out about every two years, it get's carbon buildup and results in the truck's idle being quite erratic on cold starts (04 hemi). If you'd like instructions on cleaning the throttle body let me know, but I would certainly have the comptuters software updated if you haven't already.

I hope this helps, if so please click accept. Need more info or clarification, just ask!

Thanks,
Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Reply to Leo HIckey's Post: I also have cleaned throttlebody twice and have replaced it once and have had the software program updated twice still no change in the starting and have replaced map sensor, crank sensor, temp. sensor, air intake sensor, 4 injectors, fuel system cleaning(2), replaced 4 injectors, spark plugs/plug wires. Would the PCM not be responding properly????????
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hello again! Good to hear from you.

Sounds like a tough one. Are you getting a check engine or electronic throttle control warning light?

Could you be a little more specific about exactly what the truck is doing,and when it acts up the most? The more details the better, even if they seem insignifigant.

Sounds like a lot of parts have been changed, was it setting any codes, at any point since this started up?

Unfortunately I can't drive the truck or look at the data while it's acting up, so this is going to be a tough one. The more information you can supply me with the better, even the little things count!

Looking forward to hearing from you!
Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
The truck acts up after sitting for a long period of time maybe overnight or 4-5 hours depending on the temperature. If the temperature is in the minus it will do the regular flare up and rpm's will drop to 500 or lower and stall or just sit there and miss and sputter for about 30-40-50 seconds depending on temperature again. You can actually here the engine missing. If you put truck in gear it will buck and miss/sputter.

Could it be a coil?????????                     
                                         &nbs p;       You asked if the Engine light has come on and it never has. The dodge dealer has had it on the scanner upon start up, COLD (misfire chart)shows misfires and then clears itself after about a minute or so maybe longer. Only a couple cylinders show mis-firing.
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

hmm... we might be getting somewhere here...

When they are picking up the misfires do you know if they were all on 1 side of the engine or the other?

Also, when you first start it cold, is it ok for 30-60 seconds, then it's starts to act up and pretty much act like it's running out of gas for a bit, then be fine for the rest of the day?

Keep the good info coming, really does help.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
The misfires are on both sides. It happens only when you first start it after sitting for periods of time, overnight or if the temperature is cooler 4-5 hours it will do that for 30-60secs sometimes shorter sometimes not at all when its warm out summer temp its fine and once the truck warms up it is fine until it sits overnight or for a few hours (4-5hrs) It runs like a top once it is warmed up great on fuel (20-21mpg) on the highway not bad for a hemi, lots of power
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.
Just so I'm clear on this.... It runs badly from the second the engine starts.. or does it run okay for 30 seconds or so then starts to act up? Think about it carefully, this little detail is quite important.

Leo
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
yes once the intial start up (the flare up) the rpm come down to the 500-600-700 and then spits and sputters for about 30-50 seconds once the vehicle is running it runs like a top.(once it gets out of the stumble and missing stage it runs great)

Once the rpm from the flare up comes down it runs rough spits/sputters almost stalls at cold temperatures.

Sorry to keep adding information just trying to help you with extra information if you need it.
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.
Hi,

In cases like this, every little detail counts, so that doesn't bother me one bit! I've been running this through my mind all day, and have one possiblity for you to consider. One of my fellow experts has been following this thread, and has a very good idea to, so I'm going to throw that out there. His is an easy one to try, and probably spot on (he's a smart fellow!)..

Swap fuels out. Try a few tanks of a different brand. If your running premium, switch to mid (89) or even regular (that's what I run in mine). High octane fuels are good from a octane perspective, but bad from a cold start perspective. They are less volatile, and can cause driveability on cold starts. There is actually a Dodge TSB about high octane fuel causing driveability issues in Dodge vehicles. I think that this is the easiest thing to try, and a heck of a good place to start!

My next suggestion is a possible failing O2 sensor heater. If it's heating up slowly, the O2 won't function when the truck goes into closed loop (which doesn't take long) and will cause the truck to run rough, lack power, etc.. until the oxygen sensor heats up enough to function properly. Lot's of folks describe it as sounding like the truck is running underwater.. Very common on the older trucks, not so common on the newer trucks. Easily picked up on a cold start with a scan tool, if the tech knows what he's looking for. I'm not sure how you could diagnose this yourself, short of changing both upstream 02 sensors. I only mention it becaues it sounds very much like your problem to me.

I think the best way to fix this truck, is to have the co-pilot installed by your dealer. It's a small box that records all the sensor readings when the problem is occuring. You just push a button, and it will record all the sensor readings for 60 seconds or so. Works great, makes it easy to spot any type of sensor problem. Probably going to be relatively expensive. They will likely charge you to set it up + install on the truck, and charge you again to remove / download / diagnose the issue. I think this is the way to fix your truck though. 2 or 3 good recordings would go a long, long way towards resolving this problem.

I realize this is a long way from a definative answer. This is a tough one, and this is the best I can do to help you out from here. Please don't feel obligated to accept, but I have to post this as an answer.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpfull.
Leo


Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Reply to Leo's Post: Hey Leo

Thanks for the good information. The scan tool you are talking about is the star parts scanner, I work at the dodge dealership in manitoba as a salesman and the techs here are stumped they have been trying everything I even swapped 3 coils last night but no different and your right it does sound like it is running under water. One of the guys mentioned to try the star parts unit records 1 minute and minute after. The oxygen sensor is a very good one i would say i think i will try that and let you know. is there anything you can let me know what to look for on the scanner please let me know and I will also let you know thanks for the info and will keep you posted appreciate it.

thanksCustomeredited>39365.9363078704
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.
Hi,

I don't think Starscan will record on your '04 I don't believe. You guys should have a co-pilot, it's a required tool. If you can get the fellows in the shop to set it up, and take a couple recordings we could fix this. If they don't see anyting out of the ordinary, they can email the recordings to me, I'd be happy to take a look.

What your looking for on cold start to see if it's an 02 problem is;
  • closed loop timer
  • left + right 02 voltage
  • left + right short term adaptives
Typically just after the truck goes into closed loop there will be a huge negative swing in the short term adaptives, as much as -20 to -25%. Typically won't effect the long terms, and doesn't happen long enough to set a fuel system rich, or 02 shorted to voltage code. After 30 seconds or so (kind of varies) you'll see the adaptives head back towards 0 and the truck will smooth out.

I'd set the copilot up to look at all the fuel related sensors.

Leo
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Thanks for the information, I will check and see if we have a co-pilot which I'm sure qwe should. Also I have switched fuels tried premium, mid-grade and regular and have tried different brands still the same I am actually running premium in the truck right now had that in there before your reply.

Sometimes the truck runs fine after sitting overnight is this just an intermitent thing. Could this still be part of the o2 sensor.
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Again

You are right about the truck runs rough then after about 30 seconds or so smooths right out. This is exactly what the truck does. Thanks again and will let you know the outcome.

ThanksCustomeredited>39366.4060763889
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

If it's on it's way out (the o2 heater) then I would expect it to be fairly intermittent. That's were the co-pilot comes in very, very handy.

It should be fairly obvious on the recordings.

 

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Ok perfect we have the star mobile unit it records a minute before and a minute after once the button is pushed.(co-pilot)???

How can I email this info to you and how do I download it to get it to you. Then you can give me the exact info I am looking for and you can solve my ongoing problem. Appreciate your time and effort.

Another question you say both upstream o2 sensors (heater sensors) which ones are they(location) I have heard the terms bank 1 of 2 bank 2 of 2
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi,

Starmobile may do an engine recording on an '04 DR, never tried it. I know the co-pilot will. The Starmobile would be the better choice though if it'll work (easier to setup). The shop should have both options.

1/1 and 2/1 are the upstream (before cat) sensors, these are the ones that we are concerend with here. 1/2 and 2/2 are the downstream sensors.

1/1 should be the left, and 2/1 should be the right, but I'd have to look it up, I always get mixed up.

When you get the recordings reply back to this, or open a new one, and I'll see it.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hi

Ok so the upstream sensors are the ones before the catalytic converter, the ones I should change. Bank 1/1 is first one on left Bank 1/2 is second on left. Bank 2/1 is right first and 2/2 is second on the right.

The co-pilot we do have but I dont think the tech. is familiar with the set-up or how to read the info. Is it a real tough thing to figure out our techs are so busy right now they do not have a chance to do any of the tests.

Thanks Again will keep you posted for the information to solve this .


Oh yeah one more question the sensor(s) that you mentioned to replace are they the first ones before the catalytic converter????
ThanksCustomeredited>39366.6130787037
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Yup, IF it's an O2 heater problem, it would be one of the upstream (before cat) sensors. I'm not sure of the price of them, some are $25 /ea, some are $125. If you can get 'em at costs, might be worth popping them in.

I still think a recording would be the way to go, there are lots of possiblities, this just seems to be the one that I see happen most often.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Ok so you say that this is one of the possibilities, why would there not be any codes stored for this even if it is an O2 sensor.

Ok i will do my best to get a recording cause I am curious myself, if i'm not mistaken tell me if i'm dreaming or was seeing things but the other day the tech hooked up the scanner and when he went to the display screen for the sensor there was a -number on one of the sensors and I think it was the oxygen sensor i believe it was -13 or -23 does this sound right to you or was I just seeing things.
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.
Hi,

The computer is great at picking up things that are a lot broken. The computer does a very poor job of picking up things that are just a little bit broken. If it gets progressively worse it will either trip a O2 shorted to voltage code, or if it gets really bad it'll fail the OBD II o2 heater monitors.

You may have seen a -23 in either short term or long term fuel trims, that's borderline check engine light time. I'm sure if the adaptive fuel trim was that far negative it would have caught the techs eye.

I'm not a fan of just throwing parts on, I much prefer to duplicate, diagnose, repair. With a problem like yours, a good recording is worth it's weight in gold.

Leo
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

The person that checked the sensors with the scanner is not a tech, he is the lube dude(he does oil changes and little jobs) not to be rude great guy.

I did mention the sensor number to our shop foreman and he said it is possible but he now has hooked up the co-pilot so I will have some info for you tomorow, the shop foreman is not very familiar with pulling the info off the co-pilot once it does act up any help from you would be greatly appreciated on that part.

This problem has been going on for about 10 months now so if you solve this it would be GREAT. Again I appreciate all the help.

Oh yeah one more question you say the check engine light is border line to come on is that because of the O2 sensor you mentioned that is going to fail????? Customeredited>39366.7972569444
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.
Hi Pete..

When I said the check engine light was ready to come on, I was talking about the -23 you saw.. I would disregard this.. It doesn't mean much at this point. We need to concentrate on the task at hand... Getting a good recording.

In order to function, it needs to have a template downloaded into it, via techtools, specific to your truck, did they do this before they hooked it up? If not, it ain't gonna work correctly. I'm nervous about this, if he doesn't know how to retrieve the recordings, I'm worried he may not know how to put the template into the co-pilot.

Let me know.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

When he hooked up the co-pilot he just plugged it in he never downloaded any template into the co-pilot.

Ok so we need to download info. into the co-pilot) before installing it into the truck do you know what he should be downloading into the co-pilot?

The info. that has to be downloaded is it under a specific section in the system (is it hard to find) maybe I could do this myself with your guidance if at all possible.

Thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Pete,

I'm suprised nobody in the shop knows how to use the co-pilot. I'll admit it's not something you use everyday, but it's the best tool for a problem like this.

Getting it setup, and pulling recordings off it isn't really all that hard, but I'm not sure if I could talk you through it or not. The hardest part will be finding the cables and such to connect it to the techconnect pc.

Don't have much time at the moment (it's busy, I'm on break right now). But I can try to get you a general idea of how to do it tonight. Search e-files on techconenct, should be instructions in there on setting it up.

Have you asked around the shop to see if anyone knows how to set it up? Perhaps an offer of a free lunch might jog someones memory?

If you completely run out of options, you can mail it to me, I'll set it up, mail it back, then take the recordings, mail it back to me and I'll download them and mail it back to you. Sounds like the hard way to do it, not sure if your service manger would like the idea of his copilot bouncing around the norhtern hemisphere like that either, but it's an option.

I'll see if I can dig up some instructions later.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Goodmorning Leo

I have dug up the cables and spoke to one of the techs at our other store(we have 3 dealerships) and the tech explained a little.

I have a general idea I think I could do this myself Im pretty stubborn when I need something done so on my coffee break I will plug the scanner in to the computer and get it done if I can. I have a general idea from what the tech at the other dealership said.

Hey Leo I got it figured out and its set up in my truck we selected a few extra sensors to try and see what you think.

Hello again Leo we installed the co-pilot this morning but when I started truck half hour ago hit button on co-pilot brought it back inside and nothing was recorded so we saved the templates and downloaded again so hopefully I can give you some good information in the morning.             Crossing My Fingers that it works.   

Thanks again XXXXX
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

I have installed the co-pilot twice now the first time I did it did not save anyyhing I checked it this morning and when I plug in the co-pilot to the machine to retrieve my info is there anything special I should be doing we saved info with my name under it. Am I suppose to insert my serial number into the info or just pick the sensors that we want to check cause when it says install download to co-pilot it works it says download complete and when I go to retrieve the info nothing there.

Hey Leo is there a direct number I can call you at to get you to walk me through the set up of the co-pilot to make sure it is installed properly or if you do not want to give out your number can I leave you mine?

Thanks petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Petey, sorry for the delay, busy weekend.

I'm off work today, tommorow I'll try to get in a bit early and run through co-pilot setup and write it down step by step if you want, been just long enough that I can't recite it from memory. It's not that bad, but there are a few things that don't really make sense and can make it a bit tricky.

I believe I can make the template up for you, and email it to you. All you'll have to do at that point is download it into the starscan. If for some reason you can't get it I can talk you through it.

Bear with me until tommorow when I'm back in the shop and we can take it from there.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Reply to Leo's Post: Hey Leo

Alright, thanks Leo will wait to here from you tomorow I did try something different with the co-pilot on saturday so I will see if it works from the weekend if not will wait to here from you tomorow. Thanks again for my patience.

Thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi again Petey,

Copilot 101

Connect up your cables, then log onto dealer connect --> Service --> techtools

First step, go to device options on the top of the screen, select co-pilot in the drop down box that appears. Make sure your copilot is up to date. If it hasn't been used in a while it will probably need to be updated.

Then, templates tab, then enter your truck info in the drop down boxes. Make sure the data recorder box says 'co-pilot' not DRB.

Click on the >> button to move all data elements over to the right side of the screen

click on the download to co-pilot button, you should see a box pop up with a progress bar as the template is downloaded to the co-pilot.

If you don't there is a problem with your setup.

Does this sound about like what your doing?

Leo

 

 

Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Just grabbed our spare (unused) copilot, and it won't take a template, both lights are flashing. This may be what's occuring with yours if it hasn't been used in a long time....

To repair, with trigger connected, hold the button on it, and THEN connect the power / communication cable, both lights should go solid.. Then go into techtools, and update the copilot. After this, you should have JUST the green light blinking, indicating that it's ready to take data from the PC...

Then create and download your template.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

I tried the info. you gave me and the co-pilot did need updating so I have that done and I spoke to Tech Line yesterday and I did need another cable for the truck(under dash to co-pilot) so I hope I have everything done properly I did follow your instructions and it did seem to work so once the truck acts up I will email you and you can tell me how to email the info directly to you and get the news I'm looking for.

Is there a number to call you direct????

Thanks again
Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

I finally have the co-pilot working now the trigger on the co-pilot lit up after I pushed now all I have to do is get the information to you.

I'm kind of stuck on how to look at the information on the he co-pilot and to even open it up I tried but confused I think I need your guidance.

Thanks Again
Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Petey,

Reconnect the co-pilot, but instead of going to templates, go to recordings. Select co-pilot as the source and you should get a listing of the recordings stored on the copilot. Just copy them to the desktop (or a folder where you can find them) and then email them to leo.j.hickey@gmail.com I'm on the road for the next two days, but I have techtools on my laptop and should be able to look at them.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Ok I tried to open them up there is a recording with my name but can not open it. When I go to recordings it wont open I'm getting frustrated with this already.

thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Petey,

You can't open them directly of the copilot, generally you have to move or copy them to the PC first. Will they transfer to the PC?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey

Ok so but there was a recording that I did yesterday at 5:22pm on the co-pilot I could not open it,I selected recording and all that came up was a blank page with event/time/day etc.

Maybe this is where I'm having trouble then???
I will try opening it up again here.

Is there something special I need to do move or copy them to the PC first??? How do I transfer them to the PC???
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

got email? I can forward the copilot FAQ to you, it explains what the lights indicate on the box / trigger.

It sounds like it might not have recorded anything.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey

But why would there be a time on the co-pilot I just went out to my truck and hit the trigger and the light came on let it sit for about 5min. Unhooked the co-pilot from the truck plugged it in to the computer and the time was 1:23pm when I pushed the button i click on the recording or what ever it is and it says SEND TO STAR or CLOSE I am confused I think I have done everything you have said to do maybe I am just missing one stupid little thing.

Yes I have email it isXXX@XXXXXX.XXX or work isXXX@XXXXXX.XXX

Sorry for all the questions

Thanks Again
Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi

that file you just sent is the template, and it looks good. recordings should end in .rec

when your in techtools, your clicking on the recording tab, not the template tab correct?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey

Yes I am clicking on the recording tab but a I doing something else wrong is the co-pilot not recording I start the truck when it acts up I hit the button let it go and boom the trigger light comes on let it run. Unhook it hook it up to the computer open everything up go to recordings and nothing there but if I open the template and send it to star it shows the time I punched the trigger and thats it.

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi, tried to download your template into the co-pilot, it was configured for the DRB..

I've set it to co-pilot, hit the >> button to move the readings over to the right side of the screen and downloaded it to the copilot.

I'm going to go try and make a recording off my truck, I'll post back in a few minutes, stay tuned.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Thanks Leo I know this is alot of work again I appreciate your time. Will wait for your reply.
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

hmm... I may have forgot to mention the cables.... what cable are you using to connect from the copilot to the truck, you need ot-2095, should have a yellow band around it. Forgot all about the various cables until I just tried to make a recording... with the wrong cable, doesn't work so hot!

When you hit the trigger does the green light on it start blinking?

Parts room is all locked up (where we store special tools). I'll grab that cable and get a good recording of my truck so you'll have something to compare yours with. Can't get the cable until the morning.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Yes I spoke to Tech line on monday and I had to dig up the OT-2095 cable yeah that was my first problem wrong cable at first but yesterday later in the day I had the proper cable and trigger light did come on once pushed (stays on until you shut vehicle off) got that figured out finally, now just the recording part but will get it figured out sooner or later I hope.

Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

I figured it out all I have to do is email it you I changed a couple things on the co-pilot and I have the recording but no idea what to look for. If you get back to me shortly I can email it to you.

Thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

send it!

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

I did send it to you just wondering if it worked?

I have a couple questions regarding the o2 sensors

1/1 pwm o2 heater     58.83%
1/2 "       "        100.01%
2/1 "       "        51.38%
2/2 "       "        100.01

2/1 Long Term Adap    -10.35
1/1 Lond Term Adap    -11.91

1/1 o2s Volts        5.01
2/2 "    "           5.01
1/2 "    "           4.93

1/1 o2s Level        High O2
2/1 "    "           High O2

Can you have a look at these and see what you think I'm still trying to get the co-pilot info for you might have to do it after work so the techs. don't beat me for getting in there way cause it looks like I might have to show them how to use co-pilot.

Thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Petey,

Took a quick look at lunch time, I'll take a better look when I get home from work. We are slammed today, don't really have time till tongiht.

Glad you got it to work!

Was the truck acting up when you took the recording?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Yes it was the rpm graph had some stumbles in it but it smooths out after a while so not to sure what to say did you get the graph alright cause I'm not to sure if it was sent properly or not let me know if you recieved it please.

Thanks Again Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

yup, came through fine. good work.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hi Leo

Thank you very much looking forward to hearing from you I appreciate all the help so far.

Sorry one more question can you actually open and see the graph working?????

Thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi,

Darn good recording. Everything came through fine! Congrats, you are officially your dealers copilot expert!

Things that caught my eye;

baro reading - are you located at about sea level? or do you know your approximate altitude? if this is off, it will skew everything.

adaptive fuel - if you look at the short term and long term adaptive fuels together, you wind up with about a -16%, that seems a bit out to me. The long terms are -10%, anything more than +/- 6% and I start to get a bit suspicous. The O2 sensor response looks pretty good, and they are both reading approximately the same. I think we need to find out what's throwing the adaptive off.

Now that your a copilot expert <grin!> it's time for the next step. The copilot only records at a certain speed. The more data elements you add, the less detail you get. I've created a template, and emailed it to you. Load it into the copilot and try to get 2 good recordings of it acting up. Perhaps Saturday and Sunday morning. For the third recording I'd like you to make one when the truck is all warmed up, and running fine. idle in park.

I'm curious to look at the engine RPM in more detail, you can see the skip, but we have so much selected that it's not in quite enough resolution. Curious to see if it's a single cylinder skip, or a random. The new template is bare-bones, only what we need, so it should give much better resolution.

The copliot can hold all 3 recordings, so you should only have to download it once. Feeling up to it?

Leo

 

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

I have one problem I cant read the template cause it is in some weird lettering what do I do that is why I asked you if you got mine cause mine loked funny to same way with lettering.

So you say the o2 sensors are in tip top shape shape, what do you think the problem is???

Can you tell the 3 recordings I need to put on the co-pilot and I can do that right now before I leave.

Hey me again yes feelong up to doing the recordings that would be great. We are about 2730 feet (832meters) above sea level.

Thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

The template get's loaded into the co-pilot.

The three recordings you take of the truck, the copilot will store 3 events.

When you go to the template section, you should be able to 'open' a template. See if you can open the one I sent to you, and download it to the copilot.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
I cant open the one you sent me (I cant read it all messed up)

Phone communication would be great if possible??????

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Petey,

What are you trying to open it with? I'm confused.. maybe it got screwed up in transmission...?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Not sure what program I need to open it cause the one I sent is from note pad I might not have the proper program. Just trying to open it the way you sent it.

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.
I see what's going on.... you don't need to open it, copy it to a disk, or flash drive, or whatever and take it over to the techconnect PC.

Hook up the copilot, open up techtools and go to the 'templates' tab. on the bottom left side you'll see an option, open template. click on it. you should then be able to browse to whatever you have the file saved on, and load it into techtools...

Now download it to the copilot. It's a more refined template, will make a better recording.

Then get try to get the 3 recordings I asked about eariler (2 acting up on cold start, 1 good baseline truck warmed up idle in park). The copilot will hold 3 recordings.

making sense?
Leo
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
I had a brain wave that is what I just did I saved it and am going to download it to the co-pilot right now and let you know in a bit.

Thanks again
Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hello Leo

Well got everything downloaded and I believe it worked great getting pretty easy to use the co-pilot now just loading and unloading templates, just have to stop and think a little but it is a very neat unit.

I have 3 recordings for you the second one I did the truck stumbled but smoothed out real quick, but the first should have worked and the 3rd truck was fully warmed up at idle in park.

Will get this off to you very shortly just have to save rcordings to disk for you and email them.

Thanks Again
Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hello

The template you sent I downloaded it but I could not get the recordings off the co-pilot must have done something wrong. I never deleted the recording I sent you (very 1st rec.), maybe that had something to do with it but I have deleted that and downloaded your template into co-pilot again I just need to slow down and think trying to sell cars and be a co-pilot learner lots to do.

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Petey,

Take a break, go sell some cars! I'm in no rush, we'll get it. I'm not going anywhere.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey

I know but I would really like this problem fixed before we get in to the minus minus temperatures, it is a pain in the rear when the truck stalls when you start it when its 20-30 below and spits and sputters cant be good. This problem has been ongoing for a long time and I finally have confidence that you will figure out my problem.

Is this why the recordings did not work because I had the first one in the co-pilot and never deketed it? I recall you asked if the trigger light blinked and yes once I plug in co-pilot and it has power to it the light is on solid until trigger button is pushed and once pushed it blinks for the 45sec and then solid again.

Is there anything specific I need to do to get the 3 readings at once off the co-pilot once I'm loaded up and ready to send them to you?

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Pete.

You should be able to trigger 3x's without unhooking from the truck.

Then when you go into the recordings tab, choose copilot, and all 3 should appear, then you can copy + email like you did before.

As of about 2 pm eastern today I'm going to be off for Camp, no net access, so I won't be back online until late Sunday night, please don't think I'm ignoring you. Try to get as many recordings of it acting up as you can + the one good baseline.

When you download the new template, it should wipe out all recordings on the copilot, so that shouldn't be an issue.

I'd maybe do one Saturday morning and one Sunday morning on a good cold start (after an overnight cold soak). The worse it's running, the more help it will be.

I'm glad you have confidence we'll get it fixed. Hopefully we can catch a clue on one of the recordings. Obviously it's an uphill battle, but I'm going to give it my best shot.

You never let me konw your approx altitude.?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Yes aproximate altitude is 2730 feet or 832 meters above sea level.

Ok I hope to get some good recordings do you have a general idea of what is wrong or are you kind of stumped until you see more recordings.

Will have all of the information for you hopefully by saturday night or sunday sometime during the day and we will go from there.

Oh yeah one more question what does the Long Term Adapt have an effect on?

Thaks Again Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Just caught me on my way out the door...

If your altitude is almost 3k feet your barometric pressure reading appears to be off, by quite a bit... I would expect it to be 27 to 27.5 yours was almost 30 (sea level).. If you can talk one of the guys into it have them look at the baro on another car in the shop, seems like yours is out of range to me.

I'll get back in touch Sunday night, have a good weekend,

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Leo

Ok I will see what I can do thanks and chat on sunday have a good weekend too.

Would this cause it to run like this real rough and stall???

Hey just checked barometric and it is 29.4 inHg and running goes up to about 29.6 on another truck. Checked mine same thing no different.

P-Ratio Map/Baro 0.977% not running
P-Ratio Map/Baro 0.336% +/- running    
(these readings are off another truck)

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hiya Petey,

The service info I've got list's the baro @ 2500 altitude as 27 - 27.5, but if you've verified it with another truck, it's probably a good number for your area. Depends a lot on weather. Wouldn't expect it to make the truck run rough, but would explain the negative adaptive numbers.

The long term adaptive is the amount the controller has to compensate from the preprogrammed values to keep the oxygen sensors in the correct operating range.

One of the things I'm curious to see in the recordings is the relationship between coolant and intake air temperature. That's why a good cold recording (after an overnight soak) is important. The coolant and intake air temp reading should be the same. If the intake is higher, it could indicate a out of calibration sensor (either one) or a EGR valve that's not sealing properly.

There are about 20 other things I'd like to look at in the recordings, so keep 'em coming.

EGR problems are somewhat common on the 04 hemis, has yours been changed?

Leo

PS any other experts that happen to be following along, I can forward the recordings if you'd like a look. The more eyeballs the better. Just PM me. Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

The truck I did the test on has sat for about 3 days and the Baro was the same as mine cold for cold checked mine right after.

Yes also have changed the EGR valve a few months ago and no change. You say the EGR might not be sealing properly there is a little gasket from the EGR to the block that is it cause I changed it myself. If the EGR was buggered up would it not act up all of the time even when warm???

I have changed the Air Intake Temp sensor that is the one in the tube to your air filter?? Coolant temp sensor I believe has been changed too.

No one else following along just you and I'm getting all of the info for you. The shop foreman is interested in the use of the co-pilot but not very familiar with the use of it but willing to learn. I have showed him the very first recording that is about it he was thinking the O2 sensors but you say they are good cause they are both the same.

Will get the recordings to you at lunch time hopefully they recorded.

Thanks Again Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

I dont know why I cant get the recodings to open I saved your template to the co-pilot but when I go and open it I cant view the recordings what is going on I'm getting frustrated again?? I open it the exact same way as before and I see your tech Id number so it should be there cause there are the times when I got the recordings.

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

I don't know bub. Maybe the template got screwed up somehow..

When you go to view recordings, choose the copilot, you can't see a list with 3 recordings? You should be able to then move / copy them to the PC.?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Gooday Leo

No worries I got it figured out your template saved it as DRB and not co-pilot checked on another truck and worked fine so I think I have it again but only have 1 recording so bare with me.

Are you thinking you have a general idea of what is wrong with the truck or have you seen anything like this before????

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Petey, glad you got it working.

This is a very unique way to try and fix a truck, there are a lot of possibilities. A couple of more detailed recordings using the template I sent should help narrow things down.

I'm really interested in seeing the pattern of the misfire, you can tell quite a bit from the rpm graph. Once I can narrow down what type of mis your truck is having that should be a big help.

I don't really see anything that stands out on the first recording, the intake air temp / coolant temp relationship looks strange for a truck that's been sitting overnight. They should typically be within a degree of each other.

Not being able to feel what the truck's doing puts me at a bit of a disadvantage, but let's keep after it and see what comes out of it.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Alright the temp. is suppose to be in the minus tonight so hopefully it acts up and you will have some readings tomorow if they worked.

So in this case I have changed both of those sensors. What your saying is that you have never seen this before then. I hope we get this solved!!!!

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Petey,

Nope, never on a Hemi. I would love to get this fixed for you bub. I wouldn't change any parts yet, let's get some more data to go on.

A good cold recording would be great!

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Leo

Alright will do, should I save the warmed up recording last on the co-pilot or does it matter when I do that one???

Yeah your right I have never seen this on a Hemi either and have driven lots of them this is really weird.

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

It doesn't matter what order you do the recordings in. The copilot only saves the last 3 you took. So as long as you only take 3, it's all good.

Generally the Hemi's run like a top. The 04's had some trouble with no throttle response when cold, but a new throttle body takes care of that (and yours is new). The only other common thing is the EGR valve (that typically only causes the check engine light to come on with no driveability symptoms). Those are really the only things I've ever had to do to one, besides routine maintenance (plugs, etc).

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Leo

Oh really thats it not a whole lot then. Perfect thanks again.

Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Well Leo the truck ran fine this morning it only got down to about 0 or so but never acted up. I guess I will let it sit all day at work here and start it up before I go and see if it acts up, its pretty cool out today.

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Petey,

Funny how a watched pot never boils? <grin>

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hello

Yes but why does it do this like this flare's up and comes down nice and slow to about(NNN) NNN-NNNNpm (checked a few other trucks same way) this is how mine started this morning. Other days when like this spits and sputters falls flat to about 600rpm now ran fine your exactly right about the watched pot that never boils why why why why why!!!!
FRUSTRATING Intermitent problems I hate

Its pretty cool out yet so by the time I leave from work it hopefully should act up.(maybe)

Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Truck did not act up but I hit button anyway and that is the only recording on the co-pilot and I cant send it to you either. The last truck I hit the button 3 times it works 3 recordings my truck hit button 3 times only 1 recording what is wrong with this piece of s---???????

I have the file saved to a floppy same as last time and wont send now, getting very mad.

Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Sorry about the frustration but I wish I could get this to work I sent you some recordings off of another truck to see if they worked.

Another question is the copilot turning off because the truck has the power shut off if it senses draw from the battery does it not shut down after 15 minutes or so because everytime I check on another truck I get 3 recordings but I never let the other truck sit that long, is this maybe why I'm having trouble with this???

Thanks Again
Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

I have just sent you another recording copilot14 is the name of it. (The truck kind of acted up in this one but not very bad)

I guess I have to send each recording seperately to you so I will send another one with the truck fully warmed up later on today sorry to be a pain.

Thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

No worries bud. A warmed up recording would be good. Hopefully it get cool enough tonight to get a good recording of it really acting up.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey

Did you not get a warmed up recording of my truck yet I thought I sent it already but maybe not. I will definately get one to you. What about the other recordings of the other ram have you had a look at them just to compare or have you been pretty busy sorry to bother you so much.

The temperature the last couople days have been wonderful here.

Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Did you disappear Leo, I believe the copilot once it is plugged in and left plugged in to the truck the truck has the automatic power save so it shuts the power off and when you start up truck it works but there are no recordings if triggger has been pushed.

I'm going to send you 2 more recordings of my truck one from this morning cold and fully warmed up if they worked. The watched pot never boiled again<haha>


Thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hiya bud,

I'm still here! Send me the two recordings you got, they will be a good baseline and we'll know that everythings working as it should. Then hopefully we can get a good recording of it acting up and see if we can get to the bottom of this.

Aren't intermittent problems fun?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Yes intermittent problems are fun<haha>

Ok I just downloaded them to a floppy a few minutes ago and will send them off to you.

Alright Thanks Again
Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey

I have sent the recordings out to ya hope you have them.

Let me know what you think though!!!!!

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Petey,

so for i've got copilot26b, copilot26a, copilot14, eventdata_10, eventdata11, eventdata12, and eventdata0.

I'll try to find some time this afternoon to sneak a peak at them. They are all your truck when it's OK or another truck right?

Are any of them a recording of your truck when it's skipping?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey

Yes copilot 26b and 26a are my truck along with copilot 14. 14 is warmed up fully, 26a is the truck cold and 26b is fully warmed up. eventdata0 is my truck as well warmed up or cold I believe, not sure about this one (eventdata0).

The copliot 10,11 and 12 are another 2004 ram cold and aprtially warmed up.

Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Leo

Hello again Leo are you working this weekend at all if I get this information to you if the watched pot boils.

Thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Petey,

Not working this weekend. Hunting season is in full swing here, so I'm in the woods pretty much every weekend. Taking a break at the moment (pouring rain outside).

I'm hoping your truck will carry on and we can get a good recording of it acting up!

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Leo

Have you had a look at the recordings I've sent you already?

Another question when I start my truck how come rpm does not idle at 1000rpm like the other trucks I start cold (same year) I start it cold and about 750 rpm just another thing I noticed.

Yes hunting season kill kill kill!!!!!!!!

Thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

2:20 am petey, and I'm off for hunting. Hoping your truck runs like crap this morning so we can get a good recording! I'll be checking back in late tonight.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Well truck never acted up all weekend pretty nice out except for yesterday but truck never acted up. This morning truck stumbled a bit but smoothed right out. It almost feels like something is trying to play catch up when it starts.

Goodluck Hunting
Thanks Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Just reading some of your answers here and going back to barometer readings is there a way to adjust these I thought that everything is computer controlled.

Well have you shot anything yet? (any horns)

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hello my friend.

The barometric pressure is the reading the truck takes at key on (before the engine starts) the computer uses it to calculate altitude (air density). Because Dodge uses speed density fuel injection, it's a very important sensor. Yours seems off to me, but if you compared the baro reading with other trucks and it's the same, it's OK. It really depends on your location.

No horns yet, not for lack of trying. We have a long season here, and I'm still in tune up mode (getting back into hiking shape). Hopefully by the time the rut comes on full strength I'll have my legs under me :)

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hello Again

Yes the baro reading was close to mine only out about point 29.4-29.6 so not a big difference so if this is out how does it get changed or is there a fix for this problem.

Well goodluck with the horns and keep in contact with the recordings hope I can get one to you soon of the truck acting up.

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.
Hi, that's not enough a difference to worry about. Let me know when you get a good recording, of a bad running truck :)

Leo
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Leo

Ok I dont know when its going to act up but it has been starting good lately but will keep you posted on the recordings when it acts up cause i'm sure it will eventually!

Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Well the truck acted up yesterday afternoon it sat for about 4 and half hours and the only time I never hit the button.(argh) It seems to be starting better now when it sits longer kind of weird.

How is the hunting coming along?????

Thanks Again Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Leo

Did you get the recording I sent you this afternoon??? I'm not sure if it went through to you alright.

Thanks Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi bub, just got out of the woods a few minutes ago. I just checked my email, got two from you, appear to be the same recording? After I get straightened around and unpacked I'll take a look at it tonight (sunday).

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Alright was not sure if the first one went through to you but you got it. Sounds good chat later will wait to here from you.

Have you shot anything yet?

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

HI Petey,

No luck yet. Been into the high country this year doing some ridge running. So far the only thing that's been killed is my legs every day <grin> got my fingers crossed for some snow around thanksgiving (when I'm on vacation) that'll make things much easier!

Looked at the recordings last night, the negative adaptive values are kind of bugging me, seem to far out of whack. All the senosors look A-OK, I can see a bit of a stubmle right in the beginning after the idle flares down, but it doesn't look to bad? Was the truck really carrying on, or did it just act up a small bit?

I'm sure you said you had the throttle body replaced, but I don't know how long ago.. Have you checked it for gunk build up (per 10-016-05) that might explain the adaptives. It would be worth checking / cleaning.

I'm going to do a little more research on the adaptives today, including looking at my truck and a couple others that come in to see what they are averaging. It could be nothing but it looks as though the controller is trying to compensate for something being out of spec.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Goodmorning Leo

Still nothing yet hey its black powder season here I believe as well, quite a bit of hunting going on. Yeah its tough to track when there is no snow we had i little tease last night nothing to get excited about.

The truck did not act up all that bad on that recording a little but smoothed out quickly. I cleaned the throttle body quickly about 2ish weeks ago replaced throttle body about 6 months ago it was off of another truck with about 40k on it same year of truck 2004.

Yes you say the controller (idle control motor) on the side of throttlebody????? Why would it be trying to compensate if all of the sensors are up too par??? What could be out of spec??? The truck started preety weird today after it had been running(warmed up fully) sat for about an hour, when I started it it kind of sounded like it was sputtering maybe my imagination.

Thanks Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

The TSB number you gave 10-016-05 it does not come up. It is a throttlebody TSB though????

Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Another question the negative adaptives you see which were they?? Were they the O2 sensors??

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi, a couple of things.

The new throttle body you installed was actually a used throttle body off another 04?

The TSB deals with cleaning the throttle body bore out really well, it's under vehicle performance.

The adaptive fuel trim is the amount the system is changing the fuel deliver from the pre-programmed 'perfect' setting, it's designed to allow the computer to compensate in varitions between parts and keep the emissions in spec. Typically I consider -6 to +6 normal, if they start swinging outside that then it's time to consider other things. Yours was -10 or so, and that's just outside what I consider normal, and worth investigating.

Just got done with the longest day I've had in a while, I'll fill this info in tommorow after I get some rest.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Leo

Alright sounds good the truck the throttlebody came off of ran like a top, that is why I tried that but maybe something else is out of spec. I'll wait for your response on the other info you were looking into thanks again.

I cleaned my throttlebody last night really really really good so I will wait for the outcome on this.

Thanks Again
Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Pete,

I've been thinking on this one, actually had a few minutes of piece and quiet after work today.. I'm wondering if perhaps I didn't put the cart before the horse. I tend to get myself into the mindset that all the simple / easy things have already been done, and overlook them. Usually by the time I get 'em at work they have been done..

If you've checked you email lately, you'll notice that I've sent you an old TSB, and your probably thinking maybe I hit the bottle a little to hard or something, but hear me out.

I'm wondering if your problem might be something as simple as some carbon build up on the intake valves, on a cold start it will tend to absorb some fuel until the carbon get's saturated, and make the truck in effect lean, and tend to stumble / stall.

The combustion chamber cleaner is like $4 a can, I'd follow the TSB to the letter (it's kind of a pain) and see if that helps your truck any. After you go through the decarboning process, take 'er out and give her a hot supper. Don't be afraid to let it sing, dowshift to manual low even to get some RPM out of the beast without the ticket to go with it.

(oh obviously you won't need the valve springs as indicated in the TSB, just do the decarbonizing procedure)

Thoughts?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

I have had my heads off a few months ago they changed the lifters and the heads were sent away and checked for cracks everything was 100%.

I could try this TSB though to worth a shot, the valve covers were pretty carboned up(thick with oil).

Thanks Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Leo

One more question we dont have the combustion chamber cleaner so I will get some combustion chamber cleaner from another store is that alright?????

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Pete,

If they just had your heads off, I would assume the cleaned up the intake valves before they put everything back together, either in house or wherever you sent the heads to.

Shoot..! Just trying to come up with simple (and inexpensive) things to do while waiting for the truck to throw a fit with the recorder on it.

It sounds like they have really put this thing through it's paces.. Were the heads pulled for the rough running on startup?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

No heads were pulled off because of a noise coming from the motor which they said was a lifter but was not, still making the same noise(I guess this is a hemi noise which is normal HEMI KNOCK or TICK have contacted tech line) and also the head gasket was leaking that was the first symptom why they pulled the heads off.

I can do this combustion chamber cleaning. What you think (heads were gone through with a fine tooth comb) they looked good when they came back.(cleaned)

Thanks AGain
Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

The hemi tick... Sounds like my truck :) Common on the non-mds trucks.

I wouldn't bother with the combustion chamber cleaner, if they just had the heads apart I can't imagine they didn't clean the exhaust valves.

Just be ready to push the button!

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Leo

The hemi tick does it sound like a knock only does it once in a while, mostly when it is cold out right.

I guess yeah they did both intake and exhaust valves(both cleaned)I can try the combustion chamber cleaner this truck was pretty carboned up when I bought it and might have been lacked a little maintanence just from looking at valve covers(they replaced rocker arms, push rods and lifters)

Why is that the MDS motors sound alot qieter(weird)

The button is ready and hope it works!!!!!!

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi,

Mine has a slight tick all the time, since the day it rolled out of detroit. Most noticeable in bank / fast food drive-throughs. The MDS motors don't do it typically because they have different lifters (for the cylinder deactivation system). It seems like almost every 04 I've listened to has a slight tick to it.

I've never heard any type of noise that I would describe as a 'knock' out of mine.?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

This noise comes and goes not there all of the time so I have kind of just learned to deal with it. I have complained about it but nothing TECH line would do there is no solution for it and have heard some other trucks make this noise as well.

The lifters are they not updated to the new style for the 2006 and 2007 models because there has been a problem in the past with these or are they still using 2003 upto 2005 lifters I thought the number superseded to the new style.

But getting back to the combustion chamber cleaning you dont think I should do this anyway just for the heck of it or not worth my time since the heads have been off and valves cleaned in the last few months they were done 14000km    4-5months ago.

Thanks Again
Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Again

You had mentioned you were going to look at the negative adaptives because you said it looks like the controller is trying to compensate for something out of spec.?????

How is the hunting coming along the legs getting faster and stronger any snow???? None here yet coming very soon!!!!!!

Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

I have another question I left my truck in the shop yesterday it sat for about 8 hours saturday shop was probably about 65F it started to run rough when I started it but when its outside it starts like a top now -5 so far it has been This is weird.   

Oh did you get a chance to look at the recording I sent you??

Thanks Again Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi pete,

got the recording, haven't looked at it yet, been insanely busy.. Had to put 4 tires on my '04 last night and do some services to get 'er ready for winter.. Wife's having a baby on thursday..

I'll try to sneak some time in today to go over it.. The truck was running OK in the recording though right?

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Leo

Yes truck was running like a top I noticed the open loop on this recording and closed loop on some of the other recordings what is the deal with that?????

Petey
Expert:  Leo replied 6 years ago.

Hi Pete,

Just looking over the recordings this morning. I did notice the one that hung in open loop the whole time, it was a little colder out than some of the others... but typically the truck has been dropping into open loop within 15-20 seconds on all the other recordings. Not convinced it really means anything, but it is a bit curious.

Your long term fuel adaptives are still bugging me.. up to -13 in one of the recordings, with a -5 short term when it drops into closed loop.. a total -18 adaptive, I'm suprised that it didn't run rough on that one.. I was just rereading this whole string of posts, in the beginning there you said 20 mpg.. is that accurate? That seems to be about 5+ mpg better than any I've seen (I run 14-15 summer, more like 12 in the winter).. If your getting 20 I'd love to figure out what's wrong with yours, so I could break mine!

Here's an easy test for ya, next time you go out to start it cold, turn the headlights / blower / radio whatever on for 5 or 10 minutes or so before you start the truck.. In one of the recordings it looked as though the battery voltage dropped down into the low 10 range.. Let's try drawing the battery down just a bit before starting the truck and see how it reacts.

Leo

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Morning Leo,

Why are the long term fuel adaptives bugging you?? The -13 and the short term -5 short term when it drops into closed loop for a total of -18 adaptive you kind of lost me here. Why are these numbers so important I dont understand? The truck has been starting very good now that it has gotten a little colder runs at that(NNN) NNN-NNNNwhen first start it in the morning, yes I still say it is a fuel issue could it be fuel pump, regulator maybe a diaphragm or maybe a PCM????

The gas mileage on this thing is great for a HEMI when I fisrt bought the truck it was a pig on fuel but the head gaskets were leaking had that fixed and I also changed sparkplugs and had a fuel system cleaning(motovac) and have a K&N air filter that is it no mods or anything.
I can get about 600-650km on a tank of fuel highway with a little bit of city driving that worked out to be about 19.8mpg and the best I ever did was 21.9mpg speeds very from 106-110km.

Ok I will try drawing the battery down before I start the truck cold next time, just out of curiosity why?????

Thanks Again
Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey Leo

Just wondering how things are going if you had a chance to look at those recordings I sent you?

Another thing could there be a possibility that the battery temp sensor is out of spec and not showing any signs?

thanks Petey
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Hey There Leo

So have not heard you from you all week and wondering if you have anything figured out on those recordings you sent your buddy or you still waiting on a reply back from him?????

Anyways will wait for your reply

Petey

JustAnswer in the News:

 
 
 
Ask-a-doc Web sites: If you've got a quick question, you can try to get an answer from sites that say they have various specialists on hand to give quick answers... Justanswer.com.
JustAnswer.com...has seen a spike since October in legal questions from readers about layoffs, unemployment and severance.
Web sites like justanswer.com/legal
...leave nothing to chance.
Traffic on JustAnswer rose 14 percent...and had nearly 400,000 page views in 30 days...inquiries related to stress, high blood pressure, drinking and heart pain jumped 33 percent.
Tory Johnson, GMA Workplace Contributor, discusses work-from-home jobs, such as JustAnswer in which verified Experts answer people’s questions.
I will tell you that...the things you have to go through to be an Expert are quite rigorous.
 
 
 

What Customers are Saying:

 
 
 
  • I AM VERY GLAD THAT I TOOK A CHANCE ON YOUR PROBLEM SOLVING SKILLS. I WAS SUCCESSFUL IN REPLACING THE FUEL PUMP. MY TRUCK RUNS LIKE A CLOCK. IT RUNS LIKE THE DAY I BOUGHT IT. NO LUNGING FORWARD, THE TURBO REACTS THE SECOND I STOMP ON THE GAS, AND IT HAS A LOT MORE POWER AND EVEN SOUNDS BETTER TO ME. IT SAVED ABOUT $500.00 BY DOING THE WORK MYSELF. I GIVE YOU ALL THE CREDIT FOR YOUR DIAGNOSING THE PROBLEM, JUST FROM THE SYMPTONS I GAVE YOU OVER THE e MAIL. I WILL USE YOUR WEB SITE AGAIN AND REFER MY FRIENDS. THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE HELP. TOM WHITTAKER USA
< Last | Next >
  • I AM VERY GLAD THAT I TOOK A CHANCE ON YOUR PROBLEM SOLVING SKILLS. I WAS SUCCESSFUL IN REPLACING THE FUEL PUMP. MY TRUCK RUNS LIKE A CLOCK. IT RUNS LIKE THE DAY I BOUGHT IT. NO LUNGING FORWARD, THE TURBO REACTS THE SECOND I STOMP ON THE GAS, AND IT HAS A LOT MORE POWER AND EVEN SOUNDS BETTER TO ME. IT SAVED ABOUT $500.00 BY DOING THE WORK MYSELF. I GIVE YOU ALL THE CREDIT FOR YOUR DIAGNOSING THE PROBLEM, JUST FROM THE SYMPTONS I GAVE YOU OVER THE e MAIL. I WILL USE YOUR WEB SITE AGAIN AND REFER MY FRIENDS. THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE HELP. TOM WHITTAKER USA
  • Just a quick line to tell you how pleased I am to have my brakes working properly after all this time. Your answer was what I needed. I would certainly recommend you highly. God bless! Rev. Jerry Baysinger Holts Summit, Mo
  • I recently asked a question about my 2005 dodge ram, and I just wanted to let my Expert know that he hit the nail squarely on the head with his answer. I wanted to thank him again. Greg Pittsburgh, PA
  • Just a quick line to tell you how pleased I am to have my brakes working properly after all this time. Your answer was what I needed. I would certainly recommend you highly. God bless! Jerry Holts Summit, MO
  • I was skeptical at first but thought I'd give it a try. I was pleasantly surprised. Your site actually is a quality service that I would recommend to others in a heartbeat. Stan Sayre, PA
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C. Freshfield, Liverpool, UK
  • This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!! Alex Los Angeles, CA
 
 
 

Meet The Experts:

 
 
 
  • Jerry

    Master Mechanic

    Satisfied Customers:

    1227
    ASE Master tech, 30 years exp. troubleshooter, driveability tech
< Last | Next >
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/SU/supermechanic/2013-8-23_03546_500.64x64.jpg Jerry's Avatar

    Jerry

    Master Mechanic

    Satisfied Customers:

    1227
    ASE Master tech, 30 years exp. troubleshooter, driveability tech
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/MO/MoparCertified/2012-6-7_4142_mechanic.64x64.jpg Mopar Certified's Avatar

    Mopar Certified

    Dodge Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    5813
    24 Year Chrysler/Dodge Certified Specialist
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/jeep10000/2008-9-18_222938_192601.jpg Chris's Avatar

    Chris

    Shop Foreman

    Satisfied Customers:

    4041
    ASE and Chrysler Certified Master Tech
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/ke4ich/2009-08-12_212931_DSC02211.JPG moparfl's Avatar

    moparfl

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    3285
    ASE Master Tech Gold level Chrysler Status 30 years dealership exp
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/DO/dodgerench/2012-8-1_1142_IMG3173.64x64.JPG Dodgerench's Avatar

    Dodgerench

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    2480
    30+ years Dodge/Chrysler exp., ASE Master with L1 certification. Driveability/ combustion specialist
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/RO/rodcuda/2011-7-25_224114_Donhoff1.64x64.JPG Neal's Avatar

    Neal

    Dodge Mechanic

    Satisfied Customers:

    1870
    30 years experience in Dodge Chrysler and Plymouth
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/tsmodie/2009-6-10_144056_tim.jpg Tim Mohr's Avatar

    Tim Mohr

    ASE MASTER TECH

    Satisfied Customers:

    1664
    30 YRS EXPERIENCE, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, GAS AND DEISEL