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Ely
Ely, Counselor at Law
Category: Criminal Law
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Experience:  Private practice with focus on family, criminal, PI, consumer protection, and business consultation.
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Did respondant violate my civil stalking protection order?

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HI Ely my boyfreinds jealous soon to be ex wife has thretened me, cyber stalked us sent hostile e mails ect. for weeks.i documented it and got police reports for every incident. i had a civil stalking protection order served on her on the 3rd. we have 'full trial' court this monday. Boyfriend will testify on my behalf. on the night of the third same day paper was served her, she told my boy friend to tell me that if i did not drop the order she was at war with me and threatend me with serious conceqenses. he was scared and pleaded with me to drop it i told him i would. Yesterday she posted on her face book wall that she was very happy he told her i was going to drop it. she then thretened to get even and kill me refrancing a murder in the Godfather movie, as to what shed do how shed do it. she added she was serious. she also wrote threats directed at me, and used my name as if she knew i would be reading it. police were notified. i have copies of it printed for the judge monday. im NOT droping this. she is out of control. These two incidents occured AFTER she had the temp order served on her. CAN two things she did be considered a violation of the temp. order? police said its up to judge to decide. and up to the judge to decide if there will be charges against her if they were considered violations. i am in cinciatti ohio

Submitted: 12 months ago.
Category: Criminal Law
Expert:  Ely replied 12 months ago.
Hello and thank you for requesting me. Apologies as I was offline when you asked the question originally. I am working on your question now...
Expert:  Ely replied 12 months ago.
L,

CAN two things she did be considered a violation of the temp. order?

Well first we have to define what the stalking order does not allow. This includes a pattern of conduct that the stalker knows will cause you mental distress or cause you to believe that the stalker will cause physical harm to you. Examples of this include:

Following you;
Orally threatening you;
Making harassing phone calls;
Sending threatening or harassing letters;
Vandalizing your property;
Hurting your pets; or
Any other pattern of conduct that a stalker uses to frighten you or cause you mental distress.

Ohio Rev. Code § 2903.211 et seq.

Since the order has not been dropped yet, it still applies. Posts that threaten to kill someone are arguably a violation of that ex-parte temporary order while the full trial hearing is pending. Frankly, I believe it is. It is indeed important to bring print-outs of these threats to Court. Note:

1) It would be best to bring several copies - at least one for you, one for the Judge, and one for her;

2) "Print-screen" save the screen as well, so there is a digital copy of the screen as opposed to only a print-out.

Now it is up to the Judge. The Judge has discretion here. However, I can tell you that no Judge would look upon this favorably at the least.

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Customer: replied 12 months ago.


thank you Ely. do you think the judge will view the two incidents as two separate incidents, and give two separate charges?


 


 


she has two boys aged 13, and 7. she also has a two month old baby fathered by her boy friend. I am afraid she will plead hardship to the judge and ask not to be sent to jail, and plead to pay a fine instead.

Expert:  Ely replied 12 months ago.
L,

do you think the judge will view the two incidents as two separate incidents, and give two separate charges?

Unlikely. This will likely simply be seen as one continuous violation of the order in place.

she has two boys aged 13, and 7. she also has a two month old baby fathered by her boy friend. I am afraid she will plead hardship to the judge and ask not to be sent to jail, and plead to pay a fine instead.

This is at the discretion of the Judge. I cannot predict what the Judge will decide, but I can say that "my family needs me" is generally met with a cold shoulder when punishment is meted out by the Court.

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Customer: replied 12 months ago.


I just found this on line, pertaining to penalties for violating a protection order in cincinatti ohio. I am assuming he could give the lesser one, if like you said if this is a 'continuous violation' or administer another penalty not listed? his discression?


 


 



Generally, violators are prosecuted under Section 2919.27, convicted, and sentenced to the applicable criminal penalties.


A first conviction of violating a protection order is a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable by up to six months in jail and/or a $1,000 fine.


 


Info I just found on ohio court site:


 


A second or subsequent conviction of violating a protection order is a felony of the fifth degree, punishable by up to one year in jail and/or a $2,500 fine

Expert:  Ely replied 12 months ago.
L,

I just found this on line, pertaining to penalties for violating a protection order in cincinatti ohio. I am assuming he could give the lesser one, if like you said if this is a 'continuous violation' or administer another penalty not listed? his discression?

The Judge can only penalize under whatever the law allows. Nothing more.

At this point, it is likely that if found in violation, it would be a "first conviction" all-together for both acts. So this would be UP to 6 months in jail and/or a fine.

Gentle Reminder: Please use the REPLY button to keep chatting, or RATE and submit your rating when we are finished.
Customer: replied 12 months ago.


Thank you again Ely. sorry to have so many questions. I do have one more for today, then will inform you of the out come tomorrow.


 


I did not mention, on or about 9-3-13 she was very drunk and walked over to someones residence, demanding to know if that person called CPS on her (child protective services) from what I see on the report she 'questioned' two neighbors. the officer was listed as 'victim' on the report, she was escorted home by a friend, appeared in court pleaded 'guilty' and judge fined her $195. this incident is listed as 'criminal' and 'drunken disorderly' . She has to return to court regarding this on 10-11-13- four days after our court date.


Will this current open criminal case on her have any effect on mine?


I have given the courts a copy of the incident sent to me by Sherrif .


 

Expert:  Ely replied 12 months ago.
No worries at all.

Will this current open criminal case on her have any effect on mine?

Likely not. The open criminal case is unlikely to affect this case directly because the only thing that the Judge will care about is whether or not she knowingly violated the order - period. She had a copy; she knew she should not violate it; she did.

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Customer: replied 12 months ago.


well if any thing I can assume that the copy of sherrifs report I provided the courts and his Honor will at the least, stand to show a 'Character referance' for the Respondant, and also show that she is capable of confronting people, thus backing up my fears she will confront me.


Can I be correct in this assumption?


 

Expert:  Ely replied 12 months ago.
L,

I think you may be "reading too much" into the matter.

All the Judge is going to care about is whether the court order was violated or not. Once the Judge sees that it is, the rest is superfluous. "Character references" are not needed at that point.

Gentle Reminder: Please use the REPLY button to keep chatting, or RATE and submit your rating when we are finished.
Customer: replied 12 months ago.


Can the judge arrest her for violation soon after we are all assembled before him, with out hearing the case, simply beause she broke the order?


or are the courts legally held to letting the case be told before the judge before that happens?


 

Expert:  Ely replied 12 months ago.
Hello friend,

Can the judge arrest her for violation soon after we are all assembled before him, with out hearing the case, simply beause she broke the order?

Technically, she may be taken into custody by a police officer before the court, or at the Judge's behest after the hearing. Likely, if taken into custody, this would at/after the hearing in a case such as this.

or are the courts legally held to letting the case be told before the judge before that happens?

Judge's discretion. However, if she has not been taken into custody yet, if held in violation of the order, then she would be at/after court.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


Hello Ely just got back from court. I was granted a 5 year order but greatly disappointed that the judge did not consider any thing as a violation of the temp. order. not the bullying to get me to drop it, not the death threats to me on face book, and she said to me in the hall 'go near my child and ill hit you' and walked away. my friend who was with me heard, we called and officer, I told the judge all this. he did not charge her with violation. I was told to leave first, then them 5 min later. judge said dismissed and left room.


I think once he says 'dismissed' its over. I assume he would have had to tell her if he was charging her, before he said 'dismissed' and left the court room?

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
L,

I am sorry that the Judge was less than ambitious here. But again, it is at their discretion.

I think once he says 'dismissed' its over. I assume he would have had to tell her if he was charging her, before he said 'dismissed' and left the court room?

Yes.

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Customer: replied 11 months ago.


I think she played the sympathy card. she had the infant in a fancy outfit, on her lap and when sat at the desk before him rosary beads and was muttering the rosary to herself and mentioned to him if she could stop speaking a bit to get her test machine to test her sugar as she was a diabetic. she mentioned her diabetes several times. she also brazenly said to the judge she 'would fight me for what she believed in'. she claimed she did not know that the marriage licence was no excuse for her to stalk a victim. she was cheerfull when sentenced. I have a bad feeling this individual will continue to give me grief.. she already got away with what I see as three violations. surley that comment in the hall should have swayed the judge. I am very un happy she faced no charges for her actions- despite her husband testifying that she was a danger to me, and all she had said to him and what shed do to me.

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
L,

I can understand your frustration. The only thing I can say is if she breaks the order again, and if one then files an enforcement action, the Judge may not be so lenient next time.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

hopefully they will see documented from today what she had done if she violates it.


I have a suspicion she will violate it in time.


being as there is an order of protection now, a 5 year one, will I be 'allowed' to be present in court with him at his divorce procedings, with her in the room?


 

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
being as there is an order of protection now, a 5 year one, will I be 'allowed' to be present in court with him at his divorce procedings, with her in the room?

One can file an enforcement action at any time. She can be in the courtroom for this, but, with prior notice, the court's officer should ensure nothing happens.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


One last question and you have been so extremely kind in this matter. i will close this and rate afterward.


He has my smart phone, its in my name, and I pay the plan monthly.


if she destroyed or damaged it, is that a violation of the order, she knows its mine.


I read somewhere she was not allowed to damage my property..


if she found it in his pants pocket, while he was sleeping, and damaged it.. hes told me she has already disposed of gifts I have given him, prior to the order.

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
L,

One last question and you have been so extremely kind in this matter. i will close this and rate afterward.

No worries at all. Keep in mind that you can always ask follow ups for free after rating!

if she found it in his pants pocket, while he was sleeping, and damaged it.. hes told me she has already disposed of gifts I have given him, prior to the order.

If the phone is UNDER YOUR NAME and he would agree that it was simply loaned but NOT his, and she KNOWINGLY damaged it knowing that it was yours, then yes, technically she'd be in violation.

However, the Court would generally need something more substantive, such as damaging property that was in your possession at the time, perhaps.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


Hi Ely just got my order of protection in the mail. there is a section that reads:


Warning to petitioner/alleged victim:


you cannot change the terms of this order by your words or actions. This order cannot be changed by either party without obtaining a written court order.


 


my boy friend said shes angered that the judge served her with this and feels she did nothing wrong by stalking me.


she said she wants to over turn the order.


looking at the above excerpt from the order, is it possible for her to write and protest the order and have it over turned?


or is judges decision final?


I am concerned.

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
L,

She can always attempt to appeal the judgment to an interlocutory court, but such appeals almost always fail. Such an appeal also is a costly and nuanced procedure, and not simply a "letter."
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


thank you that gives me comfort. I have what the judge called 'an overwhelming preponderance of evidence and testimony by the witnesses'.


she feels I 'defimated her charachter' in order to get the order, but yet she agreed that all evidence items shown her were true, correct and in deed sent and said by her. so I don't think she has a legal leg to stand on.

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
I think I would agree, based on what you are telling me.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


my boy friend and I just realized something. She pays for the cell phone bill for his cell phone. the bill is in HER name. She angrily brought that up to him in court, when she saw the printed evidence I provided the judge, of when he texted my home computer, stating he was going to cause me physical harm.


my question is this.. can she pull phone records OR say I am talking to him on a phone that SHE pays for, thus it being a violaion of the order?


keep in mind, this is NOT direct contact with her. I am texting to HIM on his phone, that she said she pays the bill for.


Do I have to worry about this?

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
can she pull phone records OR say I am talking to him on a phone that SHE pays for, thus it being a violaion of the order?

Yes, if the bill is in her name.

Do I have to worry about this?

It may simply make sense for him to get his own phone and pay for his own plan...
Ely, Counselor at Law
Category: Criminal Law
Satisfied Customers: 87776
Experience: Private practice with focus on family, criminal, PI, consumer protection, and business consultation.
Ely and 3 other Criminal Law Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your gratuity.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


youre welcome, you have been a major help easing my anxiety the past few days .He has my cell phone, and I have another en route in the mail for myself. I cautioned him NOT to use the one in her name any more when contacting me. use only mine. Hes nearly done filling the divorce papers and his parents are waiting until he can come back to them soon. hopefully the day he does, she wont show up at my place looking for him. if she does and I call the cops, what happens?

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
They will come, tell her to leave, and possibly arrest her.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


Hi Ely yet another question, brought up by my boy friend himself today.


we were filling out his divorce papers today. I am filling them in because my hand writing is neater than his. he will sign and notarise at the court after they are looked over and everything is approved as being all there and correct to file.


Can she cause any problems for us/me being as the papers are filled out in my hand, due to the stalking order of protection I have on her? my signature appears nowhere. but did not know if she can get mad and try to press charges beause I filled them out for him?


 

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
L,

No, this really should not be an issue.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


Hello again Ely


another question. were still filling out the divorce papers. He has to submit a written statement, in a format the court provided a sample of asking why he wants divorce. one of the reasons is adultery.


He has two children with her. the third born in july is her boy friends baby.


the letter has to state how many 'children born of this marriage'


would it be acceptable to put 'two children born of this marriage- the third is not of my parentage and I request DNA test'


or 'three children born of this marriage- the thirs is not of my parentage and I request DNA test'


the form wants to know how many were 'born of this marriage'.


technicaly they were still married when her boy friends baby was born this july. but hes not the father.


what do you suggest we write?


thanks

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
L,

Considering that this question focuses on a new matter, I respectfully ask that you possibly open a new thread on this matter per the site's rules? You can specifically request me here.

Thank you in advance.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


ahhh okay. ;)


 


 


in regards to the old matter, the order of protection, I read somewhere that the respondant could be listed in a 'database of stalkers' I looked on line trying to find this 'online database'. I know one exists for people wanting to know about molesters ect. in their neighborhood. does a 'stalker' site exist?

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
No, this is not true. No such site exists.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


shucks. wonder why that web site posted mis information like that.

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
Hello,

If you can show me the website that promises this, perhaps I can expand on my answer.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


im looking for it again


 

Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Have to find the site this came off of:



The protection order granted by the judge can be in place up to 5 years.


* This protection order is a qualifying protection order that gets entered into the national law enforcement database (NCIC) and is enforceable in all fifty states.


Violation of the SSOPO is a criminal offense. A person violating the order can be charge with Violation of a Protection Order and arrested.

Customer: replied 11 months ago.
Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
NCIC stands for the National Crime Information Center. The order would be entered into it, but only law enforcement can see it.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


ahh okay now I understand why I could not find the site. I suppose this is how the cops know you have an order, when they respond to a call.


 

Expert:  Ely replied 11 months ago.
Correct.

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