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Lucy, Esq.
Lucy, Esq., Lawyer
Category: Criminal Law
Satisfied Customers: 20494
Experience:  Criminal Justice Degree, JD with Criminal Law Concentration. Worked for the DA and U.S. Attorney.
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In Bowers v Devito the Supreme Court Decided that Govt has

Customer Question

In Bowers v Devito the Supreme Court Decided that Govt has no duty to protect.... So how can police, prosecutors and the State say they represent the "people" when it is clearly evident the SC decision above. Where is the reciprocal agreement? I read in all criminal cases to prosecute the party/plaintiff must satisfy all elements of a cause of action for the court to have standing to hear the case. How can a traffic ticket be synomus wit a valid cause of action? excuse spelling :) Do supreme court decisions count in state court? If so how could the court have standing to hear the case if the elements of a cause of action are no satisfied. Please don't let me cite Supreme court decsions which U already know, if not I'll share them with you.
How can there be a citizen or a state if the Supreme Court decided in Bowers v Devito that the govt has no duty to protect as elementary as police services - no reciprocal agreement? Have fun!
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Criminal Law
Expert:  N Cal Attorney replied 3 years ago.

The case you mentioned is from the 7th Circuit, not the US Supreme Court. The case states:

Section 1983 imposes liability on anyone who under color of state law "subjects . . . any citizen . . . or other person . . . to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution . . .," and thus applies only if there is a deprivation of a constitutional right. See, e.g., Paul v. Davis, 424 U.S. 693, 699-701, 47 L. Ed. 2d 405,XXXXX 1155 (1976); Baker v. McCollan, 443 U.S. 137, 146-47, 61 L. Ed. 2d 433,XXXXX 2689 (1979); Bonner v. Coughlin, 545 F.2d 565, 567, 569 (7th Cir. 1976). There is a constitutional right not to be murdered by a state officer, for the state violates the Fourteenth Amendment when its officer, acting under color of state law, deprives a person of life without due process of law. Brazier v. Cherry, 293 F.2d 401, 404-05 (5th Cir. 1961). But there is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen. It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents against such predators but it does not violate the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment or, we suppose, any other provision of the Constitution. The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties; it tells the state to let people alone; it does not require the federal government or the state to provide services, even so elementary a service as maintaining law and order. Discrimination in providing protection against private violence could of course violate the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. But that is not alleged here. All that is alleged is a failure to protect Miss Bowers and others like her from a dangerous madman, and as the State of Illinois has no federal constitutional duty to provide such protection its failure to do so is not actionable under section 1983.
From
http://il.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.%2FFCT%2FC07%2F1982%2F19820820_0040301.C07.htm/qx

I hope this information is helpful.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

OK, N CAL Attorney! Cool : )

I will double the payment if you can answer the real question " Is a traffic ticket synomous with a cause of action?" How can there be standing in a traffic court case such as failure to stop or even speeding if "Standing requires violation of a legal right that caused damages........ to be redressed by the requested relief." Allen v Wright, 468 U.S. 737, 751 (1984). Corpus delecti consist of two elements so how can a traffic citation show these two elements when no injury or damage is written on the citation by the cops nor is there evidence thereof. Some case I reviewed Sears v Hull, 961 P.2d 1013,1017 (1998) " Warth v Selden, 422 U.S. 490, 501" 29A American Jurisprudence Second Ed., Evidence § 1476 and People v Lopez 62 Ca. Rptr. 47, 254 C.A.2d 185

Are traffic stops scams?

Expert:  N Cal Attorney replied 3 years ago.
Is a traffic ticket synonomous with a cause of action?

No but the cause of action arises out of the conduct that authorized issuance of the ticket.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Relist: Incomplete answer.
Answer my question(s) factually and completely
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Relist: Incomplete answer.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
<p>How can a traffic court have standing to hear a case if the elements of a cause of action cannot be met, according to the Supreme Court Decision that no claim can be prosecuted unless there is palpable personal injury or damages. Also, since there is no individual contract or reciprocal aggreement with the government and a individual, how can a cop represent a state and be a party in an action when he is artificially created by a body politic and has no duty to protect (Bowers v Devito)</p>
Expert:  Lucy, Esq. replied 3 years ago.
Hi,

My name is XXXXX XXXXX I'd be happy to answer your questions today.

In a traffic court case, the injured party is the state. The "injury" is the insult to the state's sovereignty. The idea is that a person who breaks the law is rejecting the state's authority over him, which damages the state. This is true in virtually all "victimless" crimes, such as jaywalking, possession of a narcotics for personal use, or traffic offenses that didn't result in an accident. The "victim" is the state.

The officer does not represent the state in court. Only a lawyer can represent the state. The officer is also not a party to the action - he is a witness to the illegal conduct, and he is vested with the authority under state statutes to investigate crimes and to issue citations where he sees a violation.

Finally, a police officer has the duty to serve and protect the public as a whole - not any individual person. If every person who was injured by the criminal acts of a third party, the entire government would be bankrupt and would end up dissolving. By issuing traffic tickets, the officer is protecting the community as a whole from the danger of being injured in a car accident by someone who is speeding, or running a red light. Even where there is no injury in a specific case, the state's ability to issue tickets will deter many from doing these things, especially people who have previously been cited and have had to pay the fines.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Thanks Lucy, I know your busy and knowledgeable about the "Law." I am accepting your answer, yet I am confused because if there is no reciprocal agreement between an human being and the govt such as the Constitution and 4 page unsigned document, how can a body politic be made an victim when it is not a tangable thing? A state is non-exsistant, fictional, and created in the mind(s) of men or women. The factual contridiction I see in your answer is ........a police officer has the duty to serve and protect the public as a whole not any individual person.

The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties; it tells the state to let people alone; it does not require the federal government or the state to provide services, even so elementary a service as maintaining law and order. Another contridiction is that the Cop, Prosecutor, Public Defender and Judge get their pay checks from the "STATE." Any postion someone holds in a corporation would tend to mean they represent that corporation. Since this is the case I smell a conflict of interest as fore these individual share the same interest and motivation to take the money from an individual through coercion, intimidation and violence. If the Constitution states that Govt was create and limited to protect individual rights - Life, Freedom and Property, how can an agent (state) charge an principal (individual) with a violation that has nothing to do with individual rights or a tangable thing such as a living creature? Your an intelligent, educated lady. Have you ever read any of Lysander Spooner's books? If you do hit me up on my email on what you think about his writings. I believe he was a lawyer too! God Bless. I will accept you answer and add more money for your valuable time and the gracious way you answered my question. Hope to hear from you again in the name of Jesus!

 

Expert:  Lucy, Esq. replied 3 years ago.
To some extent, you have to separate, because you're talking about state police and the federal constitution. State police don't represent the federal government, nor are they paid by them.

The state can be harmed - to use your example, a corporation is an entity created by statute that doesn't have a physical body. However, a corporation can be harmed by theft, or defamation, or in other ways. The state can also be harmed by a person's actions - taken to the extreme, a person's rejection of the state's ability to make and enforce laws can lead to treason and anarchy. Laws exist to avoid this outcome.

Police officers, judges, prosecutors and public defenders are all paid by the state, but they all have very different functions. Police officers protect and serve the public and work to preserve order. Judges interpret the laws and make sure that everyone is treated equitably (whether fair treatment benefits the individual, the state, society as a whole, or all of the above). Prosecutors work for the public justice, and public defenders work for their individual clients - the everyman. Unlike a police officer, a public defender *does* have an obligation to individual citizens - each client that he represents. Any one of those people who takes money from someone through coercion and violence is looking at criminal charges, just as you or I would.

Although I've heard of Lysander Spooner, I'm afraid I'm not terribly familiar with his works.
Lucy, Esq., Lawyer
Category: Criminal Law
Satisfied Customers: 20494
Experience: Criminal Justice Degree, JD with Criminal Law Concentration. Worked for the DA and U.S. Attorney.
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Lucy, Esq.
Lucy, Esq.
Criminal Lawyer
20494 Satisfied Customers
Criminal Justice Degree, JD with Criminal Law Concentration. Worked for the DA and U.S. Attorney.