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Law Educator, Esq.
Law Educator, Esq., Lawyer
Category: Consumer Protection Law
Satisfied Customers: 114783
Experience:  Attorney experienced in commercial litigation.
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08 March 2016 11:31 Follow up Law Educator.Filed motion

Customer Question

08 March 2016 11:31
Follow up Law Educator.Filed motion for dismissal as we had discussed. The state petitioned court to amend the ticket to a Illinois statue from the village ordinance violation. My motion for dismissal was denied and the states motion to amend ticket was granted. So...the state amended the ticket...not the cop as cop was not there maybe...WTFI protested the action of the court, pointed out that they would not change anything for me to get a jury trial and only in the states interest did they change the violation.The state offered me a deal court supervision and fine and I rejected it, demanded jury trial.Couldn't help but to laugh.....the judge paid by state, the prosecution paid by state, judge throws prosecution all the bones ...I dare not go to a bench trial, seem like a conflict of interest.Any suggestions?I had my discovery ready and presented it.5/12/2016:So I have a court date regarding the discovery. I have not revived any info from the submitted discovery. I assume they will not be providing anything.I intend on getting a jury trial. Since the states attorney re-wrote the ticket I am going to ask the cop why she wrote the ticket and cited a local ordinance and not the state driving code. If she says she did not know that the ordinance had no jurisdiction on the road I was on then that would destroy her credibility. If she did know that it had no jurisdiction...then that it fraud.Is this correct ?
Submitted: 11 months ago.
Category: Consumer Protection Law
Expert:  Law Educator, Esq. replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your question. I look forward to working with you to provide you the information you are seeking for educational purposes only.
The prosecutor decides on the proper charge they will prosecute, not the police. So the police wrote the citation and since you properly objected to the charge being improper and the prosecutor decided to amend the charge, because they do have the right to amend the charge.
So, now you have to attack the speeding charge on the new amended ordinance they charged you with. You have to attack that you were not doing 52 in a 30 and attack the officer's credibility and her reading of the radar.
The deal the prosecutor offered, court supervision means you pay the fine and if you do not have any further violations the case goes away. It is not a conviction. It does not get reported to DMV. If you get another violation while under the court supervision, then the ticket turns into a conviction and is reported to DMV. So the deal you were offered was the typical deal most people seek from the court.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
I understand the court supervision.So I plan to attack the charge. I plan to ask the officer why she cited the local ordinance and not the Illinois driving code in the first place. By doing this I hope to prove that the officer either did not know the jurisdiction of the ordinance or cited the ordinance for revenue reasons so that local municipality would get the money. The latter would mean fraud and I wounder how many people were unlawfully cited under the local ordinance.So my question to you is,(even though the charge was corrected or changed) can I question the officer regarding the original charge under local ordinance as to why she did not cite the state driving code? How likely is it that I will convince a jury that the cop was either acting fraudulently or with incompetence?
Expert:  Law Educator, Esq. replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.
No, you cannot question the officer about the original charge, because the DA amended it and the original charge is no longer pending and is no longer subject of your trial.
You have to attack the officer on their use of radar and determining your speed.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
So the state can comitt fraud and not be questioned.
Expert:  Law Educator, Esq. replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.
It is not fraud, the officer charges someone and if the DA does not like the charge they can amend the charge to the correct charge or to a different charge, that is not legally what is considered fraud.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
The part that is fraud is the cop knowingly writing a citation using an ordinance that has no jurisdiction in order to generate revenue for a municipality.
Expert:  Law Educator, Esq. replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.
That is not fraud, it is writing a mistaken charge, but the DA by law ultimately decides the proper charge and if the DA corrects the charge, then that is what the municipality is gaining revenue from and not the incorrect charge.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
It was purposely written under an ordinance. Had I not motioned for dismissal, it would not have been changed. I don't care how one splits hairs on it, knowingly and purposfully performing an incorrect act, wrongfullly resulting in a transfer of an instrument is fraud.
Expert:  Law Educator, Esq. replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply
You are making a common pro se mistake and arguing something that is meaningless to the courts. Your DA ultimately makes the charge, the officer merely "suggests" a charge on a ticket. What you are arguing is of no meaning to the court and it is just going to piss off the judge for wasting the court's time. Argue the charge the DA has chosen to prosecute, not a suggested charge the DA did not accept.
Again, under the law, the DA has the final say on what is charged and prosecuted. While a police officer suggests a charge when they make an arrest or write a citation, that is NOT the official charge, it is not an official charge until the DA actually accepts it, which they did not do in your case.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
So, it will not damage the officers credibility by showing a jury that the officer either knowingly or unknowingly wrote down the wrong charge?
Expert:  Law Educator, Esq. replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.
No, it does not damage the credibility that the officer wrote the wrong charges. The officer really only needs to testify about what you did or did not do. So if you were speeding, regardless of the actual code they wrote on the citation, their credibility goes only to whether or not you were exceeding the speed limit and how they knew you were.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
Hummm...that doesn't sound right. If I were a juror, and I understood the officer had errored repeadedly, i would be suspect of their ability to read radar.
Expert:  Law Educator, Esq. replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.
While it does not "sound" right to you, it is the way the law works because the police do not finally determine the proper charges, the DA does under NJ law. You can argue if you want that because they do not even know the laws they could not properly read a radar, but then you have to show how those two things are related (that is going to be where your difficulty would be in getting the court to accept the defense, since those two things are not related). Just because the officer does not know the actual statute, if they can show you were exceeding the speed limit, that is what the court is looking at, since police are not attorneys and it is the DA who determines the appropriate charge in court.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
Well that all I have. They refused to respond to my discovery. What a rigged system.
Expert:  Law Educator, Esq. replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.
Unfortunately, that is the way the laws are written and as attorneys we do not write them, but we can certainly take a ton of abuse from our clients when we try to explain them to them. The traffic courts are more of a kangaroo court than people want to believe. In traffic court, go watch some cases and you will see, pretty much the defendant is always guilty and it is always the word of the officer against the word of the driver. Unless there is some outside independent evidence supporting the driver's contentions, the courts side with the officer's testimony because they claim the officer's testimony is not biased as they are merely doing their job to enforce the laws, while the driver has a bias in not wanting to have the ticket on their record.
So yes, the traffic court system can seem rigged to the non-lawyer, but that is how the courts and the laws set them up to be as they are really money makers for the municipalities.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
Money makers for municipality... That in its self is fraud. This is why people do not respect the law or the courts...I suppose it was designed that way from the start with the administrative state
Expert:  Law Educator, Esq. replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.
Unfortunately, as I said, we as attorneys did not set up the system, the states set up their systems and we just have to work within the systems that they set up.
The main problem sometimes, not all the time, is that the general public just does not understand the system itself. Yes, I know, the system seems slanted towards the government, but again the government made those rules and if the people want to change them, then they need to change who they elect to get them to pass new laws to change the system.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
And now we know how voter fraud works. I don't feel the system is legit. Thanks for your advice. It's strange to hear this from an officer of the court, regarding the kangarooality that is..lol.I don't have that much faith in changing it. I live near Chicago, the corruption is rampant. One can't be elected dog catcher without blessings from the Emanuel gang...
Expert:  Law Educator, Esq. replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.
You only need to go sit in court and watch traffic court cases to find out how this works.