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LegalGems
LegalGems, Lawyer
Category: Consumer Protection Law
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Experience:  Research Attorney; Private Practice; Attorney Mentor; Mediator
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To Legalgems ... How does Civil Court view documents that are

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To Legalgems ... How does Civil Court view documents that are in direct violation of the fdcpa and were part of collection process .... but then are used in a civil pleading as amount sought by plaintiff and/or defendant
Submitted: 8 months ago.
Category: Consumer Protection Law
Expert:  LegalGems replied 8 months ago.

LegalGems :

Hello again! Thanks for opening a new thread. So did you request validation and you never received it?

Customer:

did no receive either ... validation was part of first letter .. I requested verification by disputing debt amount and asked for detail

Customer:

do i have validation and verification reversed

Customer:

actually i disputed the validity and wanted it verified

LegalGems :

No, sorry that was my error. If you request verification, the courts are very vague on what satisfies this- so it is up to the individual judge (when the judge's have discretion it is so difficult to predict, as it usually depends on their personal preferences). Verification can be as simple as a copy of a credit card statement, showing amount due (for example, three months after charges were incurred, so not a listing of the actual charges). However, once it goes to court, the burden is on the plaintiff, and they need to prove the actual debt existed - if they are unable to do so, the defendant can move for a motion to dismiss with prejudice.

Customer:

well verification was never provided

Customer:

got a second letter about the lien being placed and that was it

LegalGems :

None at all?

Customer:

nope

LegalGems :

That would expose them to a fine - but if the underlying debt is legitimate, it doesn't negate the debt (unfortunately!)

LegalGems :

Let me check on the fine.

Customer:

thats what the case is about generally ... my inability to have access to records and them withholding them to commit fraud

Customer:

dc 1500 bucks

Customer:

no verification but also the amounts are wrong, which I can prove also . ... the dates are wrong the whole process was based on little legal regs of fdcpa

LegalGems :

The fine would be $1,000, no actual damages required. The amounts are wrong? So they are claiming more than you owe? Can I ask what type of debt is this (there may be other statutes that apply).

Customer:

Bigger question is about the collection letter that is identical to the document they registered with the court as part of their counterclaim ... which is the collection letter and then verification done 9 months later

Customer:

yes

LegalGems :

So they submitted fraudulent documents as part of the court record?

Customer:

its all basically what I said ,,,, catch someone in a small act of fraud ,,,, and then one thing leads to another leads to withhilding documents and placing false liens

Customer:

I say they are because I know the balances etc aren;t correct ,,, include debt amounts they made up ....they never quite understood that numbers don't lie and retrofitting passed documentation with current is tough to do .... im a cpa by trade .. thus good with numbers nd such

Customer:

The letter that is their counterclaim exihbit one .. Is there collection letter they sent to me in July ... same exact letter ..... One question I had was that the letter itself violates the FDCPA by being dated Feb 7th and giving me to the 22nd to respond or lien will be place ... that letter being in that format as part of original collection process means what ?

Customer:

1000 fine ...

Customer:

or should the letter have been resent with correct dates in collection process .... I'm thinking all it means is 1000 dollar fine ,,, letter stands debt stands until I prove it incorrect ... it just seemed odd that liens can be placed monts before verifcation occured .... the lien amount file in city records didn't even match the attorneys collection letter amount ... it was off 25%

LegalGems :

Here is a good summary of FDCPA violations and the "aftermath": https://www.acainternational.org/files.aspx?p=/images/21673/3078fdcpaliability.pdf I am wondering - if this is widespread? If so, the attorney general will generally pursue this as fraudulent collection activities, and will suspend/revoke their license.

Customer:

liens on my home ... seems odd that anyone can file ... and the person who;s residence it was filed againt has to disporve it

Customer:

thank you thats great

Customer:

you'd think but when you're one consumer vs ... three others and lawyer willing to lie as a group it's not so straight forward

LegalGems :

There is a whole legal process for filing a lien on a residence. Including a court process. If they improperly filed a lien, they can be liable for damages incurred (Including attorney fees and costs). I know you said you are a CPA - what about one of your colleagues acting as a forensic accountant, poking holes in their accounting - as an impartial expert witness?

LegalGems :

Too true.

Customer:

i have

Customer:

its very simple that the amounts are wrong

Customer:

they include a debt from 2007 that I never owed ... and even if I did ,, it;s time barred ... its all kind of easy stuff ...it lists on the verification 2007 blah blah .. and the next entry is 5/2013 ,,,,,

Customer:

as a witness sure ... its really easy stuff .... i mean letter says 11k lien says 14k things like that ... when are they able to file the lien when verification is requested ? verification seem to have no structure for exact rules to follow

Customer:

i got verification4 months after i asked for it ,,, 2 months after lien was filed

LegalGems :

Was this a judgment lien?

Customer:

no just condo lien

Customer:

lawyer doesnt even sign it ,, he supposedly reviewed it ... then board president signs it ... 4 unit condo building,,,, im the only one not on board ,,,, that may give you better understanding of what the situation is, lots of money goes missing... the accountant points it out .. and the response was been interesting ,,, there is no enforcement on condo law in dc besides the courts ...

LegalGems :

See, pursuing the debt when the verification was not complied with (the 2 months time frame) is a violation - so that's where the $1,000 comes in, plus attorney fees/costs - but only those that are attributable to pursuing the FDCPA violation. The Act was intended to protect consumers against shady collectors, but you can see that its practical effect doesn't give anyone much protection. It usually only comes in handy when there are many consumers affected, and the FTC/Attorney general goes after them, for multiple violations.

Customer:

so has escalated to civil court .....whats your take on their attorney being the collection attorney i was kind of shocked to see his name ..... I wont ask anymore questions ... i really thank you ,,,, i think a civil attorney may be ideal for a replacement

Customer:

so there is a two month timeframe i didnt know that

LegalGems :

No, the 2 months from when you requested verification, and they didn't provide it, yet pursued the lien. Sorry I didn't word that very well.

Customer:

does the law not tie to placing liens though .. whole separate issue ? I've not been able to sell my place like I've wanted due to these liens they've placed knowing they are fabricated

Customer:

ok the filed the lien in like June ... verification came in like September

LegalGems :

See, those are the type of "actual damages" that can come in handy - i.e. if the market takes a downward turn, you can claim that as damages.

Customer:

well im paying for two residences because i was transferred to chicago

LegalGems :

OK, so the expense of maintaining the home with the lien- that would be considered a recoverable damage.

LegalGems :

A civil attorney- but with an emphasis on creditor/debtor law- that would be ideal.

Customer:

ok great, when you say maintaining, do you mean maintence or did you mean paying the mortgage ... what does that mean ... the place has sat empty because they would not give me any of the documentation .. like a resale package etc to sell it .. the other lawyer had that correct ... at least that was correct .. ill let you go ... you dont know of any good consumer attorneys who litagate

Customer:

maintaining for you means what ... im curious

LegalGems :

Paying the mortgage- any expenses you are incurring because of the lien. And unfortunately we can't give referrals! But please google any prospective attorney so you can get a feel for what their rep is.

LegalGems :

Did I clear up maintaining? Pretty much the costs associated with home ownership, as this would be considered actual damages suffered.

Customer:

ok great ,,,

Customer:

its hard to find civil litigators in DC ,,, but agree debtor creditor is at heart of case ... thank you !!

LegalGems :

Very welcome. and good luck with all this. What a nightmare!

Customer:

it is a nightmare :)

LegalGems :

Well, hopefully the tide will change.

Customer:

well if presented correctly 1+1 = 2, not 5 ... its a numbers case ... i just want to be done with it ,,,, non binding mediation after 8 months of nonsense left me speechless

LegalGems, Lawyer
Satisfied Customers: 3202
Experience: Research Attorney; Private Practice; Attorney Mentor; Mediator
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Expert:  LegalGems replied 8 months ago.
I hope you found the information I provided useful. More importantly, let's hope you find a good attorney that can wrap this up for you - it sounds like you have been put through the ringer on this.

Future requests can be labeled "TO LEGAL GEMS" followed by your question. I am available for family law, consumer protection, and estate law issues.

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Take Care!
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

thanks again for your hel[

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