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Curtis B.
Curtis B., Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 27035
Experience:  Technican turned service manager with multiple lines of equipment and rental units.
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I got a Princeton teledyne forklift. And it starts but after

Customer Question

I got a Princeton teledyne forklift. And it starts but after running it for awhil it dies. I switched out the fuel filter but it continues to die. If I'm driving and I see it's about to die I turn the key to engage the starter and it'll stay running. But
I got to keep doing that. Please help
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.
Hello, a good number of things are in play here so it would be difficult at best for me to say what your problem is. However, I'm jumping in here to ask about you turning it to the start position when it's running. Does it engage the starter when you do that? If so, you're gonna kill that starter real quickly. At first blush, one would typically suspect a fuel supply problem. But since it will "stay running" when you turn the key to the start position I suspect it's something else causing the problem. Again, a number of things to be considered, one, the type of engine and control, maybe a Hatz diesel? Something to suspect would be the engine oil pressure or the oil pressure switches. On many of these applications the engine will have an oil pressure switch that will kill the engine if the oil pressure drops to protect the engine from seizing up from lack of lubricating oil. And the trick, on many of these systems, when you turn the key to start position it overrides this low oil pressure feature (since the engine doesn't have oil pressure when first cranking). Once the engine gets running, it will have oil pressure and engine remains running. I would look into the engine oil pressure switch that controls this shut down feature, and make sure it's not, in fact, a loss of oil pressure in the engine.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It is a Hatz Diesel
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How can I check the oil pressure?
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.
Well darnit, I've spent the evening trying to find anything on the internet, can't find nothing but operators manuals for Hatz engines. I did find Continnental Engines website had service manual downloads, fairly affordable as well, 18 - 20 bucks, not bad if it's a good manual. My computer doesn't have any Hatz stuff on it, all that info was on company computers at a former company I worked for, worked on several models of Teledyne and Moffett piggy back lifts. Given I can't seem to get my fingers on any specific info, at least let me tell you what I know about Hatz engines. Most Teledyne used the 4 cylinder engine, and unless it's a really old unit, most likely has either the 4L41 or the 4M41 engine, and it's likely it's one of those engines wrapped in the "Silent Pack" engine covers, the whole engine is wrapped in sheet metal, that makes them kind of a pain to work on. Most Hatz engines I've worked on have the shutdown feature, can be triggered by either low oil pressure, high engine temperature, or broken cooling fan belt. High temp is typically not a problem because, being an air cooled engine, as long as it's running it's cooling the engine. Exceptions would be broken fan belt (which trips a switch) or debris clogging air from going through the oil cooler or by the cooling fins on the cylinders. The other thing that will shut them down is low oil pressure. Most Hatz controls have a oil pressure dummy light on the control console, does yours have that? Or does it have an oil pressure gauge? If you have the dummy light, does it light up as soon as you turn on ignition? And does the light go off after engine is running? If that's working properly, is the light on when the engine begins to shut down which would indicate loss of oil pressure?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Let me check on that I have a light that I didn't know what it did
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.
Yes, do check, I'm curious and hope we can solve this problem. As with any oil pressure dummy light, it should light up as soon as you turn on the ignition as you have no oil pressure at that time. Once engine starts and gets oil pressure, light should go out. If it does this, it's working proper and you have oil pressure. Now, that dummy light will be controlled by a pressure switch on the side of the engine block, and they typically just use one wire going to the pressure switch, but the low oil pressure shut down should be a different pressure switch, likely in the same location. The shut down pressure switch typically has two wires going to it. We need to verify if the low oil pressure is causing our shut down before we look for other causes like bad connections or faulty fuel shut down solenoid. Let me know what you find.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Okay sorry it took me so long but there are three lights. A green red and yellow. When I start it the yellow light comes on and stays on
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.
Apologies from my end as well taking my time getting back to you, I'm on vacation in Daytona. I know exactly which three lights you're referring to mounted on the panel to the right of the operator, but it's been so long since I've worked on these units I can't for the life of me remember what they're for, and I can't find a darn thing about these machines on the internet. It's really irritating me that I can't give you any more info on these machines, especially since I used to work on them! I guess it's just been too long and my head is now wrapped into the dirt equipment I work on nowdays. I thing I'm just going to have to opt out of your question, this will put it back on the board for others to view, maybe someone else can come up with something. I can still access your question, and if I come up with something I can jump back in here. If you come up with something be sure and post it, I'm really curious as to what's going on with this machine. BTW, does the machine start on its own, or do you have to boost it off?
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 1 year ago.
Th fuel shutoff solenoid is bad! It has two coils, one small one, has to keep solenoid retracted, the larger coil, is energized by the starting circuit. The small coil should always have power, as long as key is on. Also check the charging system and be sure it is charging, if voltage drops, the solenoid will kill engine.
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.
Exactly Curtis B, that's why I asked if he has to boost the machine to start it. If the charging system isn't working properly, and voltage drops from no charge from the alternator, that fuel shut off solenoid will let go and kill the engine.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
You mean the alternator when you say charging system? All of a sudden my batteries were drained so I recharged them I figured the alternator was bad. What should my voltage be at 13?
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 1 year ago.
fully charged over 13 volts!
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 1 year ago.
Likely if the alternator is working, the shutoff will not drop out.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How does fuel shut off solenoid look and where is it located
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 1 year ago.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAxWDYwMQ==/z/cs0AAOSw6BtVVG2A/http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAxWDYwMQ==/z/cs0AAOSw6BtVVG2A/$_35.JPG35.JPG
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Where would this be located or how can I track it down?
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 1 year ago.
Did you see the Ebay picture? Link is the HTTP. You never gave me engine model number, but this is the Hatz/Deutz solenoid, that mounts on the side of the block, as this engine has unit injectors and has injector sections for each cylinder, not a combined injection pump.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Yes I saw the pictureIt's a Hatz
3M40L 157B
791892004623
3000 60-026
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I checked around the engine. I'm assuming I'm gonna have to pull the engine out?
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 1 year ago.
NO, it will be on the side where the injection lines are. Do you see the lines going from the pumps to the head?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I can't seem to find anything that looks like that. I found a gold round thing with a black box on it. Is that it? I t has for bolts. I took it off and turned the key on and it pushes forward
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 1 year ago.
That could be it, does the part it pushed move?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Yes
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 1 year ago.
I f you loosen injection line at the cylinders , do you have fuel spraying when cranking?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Is this the side I should be looking at?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Are you still there?
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 1 year ago.
the hat shaped object to the bottom right on the picture? See if the link behind it , that i would move is moving and is spring loaded. Solenoid should let the inner link move to the open fuel position when it moves.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Yes it pushes it forward
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 1 year ago.
So it is not a fuel shutoff problem. So engine dies when running? Do you have to prime to get running again? Or it fires right back up? If it fires right back up , I think the fuel shutoff can be dropping out. If you have to bleed system, or is hard to get restarted, you have a restriction in the fuel suction fro the tank, to the fuel primer pump.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It starts up right away. Should I replace the solenoid? If so, Where could I find one?
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 1 year ago.
You can remove it and plug the hole for test. If engine continues to run, you know solenoid is bad or it is loosing voltage. Part will have to come from Hatz dealer.

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