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catmastertech
catmastertech, Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 2313
Experience:  Field service technician for CAT 19 years.
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I have a 1989 D3c Bulldozer with a 3204 motor, the serial

Customer Question

Hi, I have a 1989 D3c Bulldozer with a 3204 motor, the serial number is ***** I bought this machine 3 weeks ago and it was running great, all of a sudden it stalled out. The tank was completely drain, the fuel filtered changed, and new fuel in the line. The machine still did not run after this. I then bought a new bypass pump and a hand fuel pump and attempted to run the machine again, but it will not run. If I crank the machine and spray ether into the machine and it will run. All lines appear to have fuel in them. All where check when the motor was cranked over. I changed the oil it a last attempt to get this machine running, I thought the machine would be affected by the oil pressure. I am not sure what to do because I still cannot get this machine to run except by spraying ether into the engine. Is it bad injectors or do I have another issue?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
Hello,Are you purging the lines of air at the valve cover?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
My brother is a diesel mechanic. He stated he purged the lines for air.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
Does the throttle lever feel like it goes into a detent when you idle down to the stop position?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The governor lever has a ittle stiffness, but nothing that seems like it is hung up. You can see it shift on the side of the motor.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
It is possible the the governor is stuck and will not open the fuel rack.To see if the rack is stuck, remove the small cover on the side of the injection pump housing and you will see a chrome rod with a notch in it. Use a screw driver to see if the rod will move and work the throttle at the same time.This rack is the direct connection to the injection pumps and should move easily.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
This cover was taken off, but I did not crank it when it was off. I did check the line where they enter into the line to the injectors and they all seem to get fuel. Would this affect the machine from running even though all the lines are getting fuel?
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
This is the rack that must move freely.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, could this have become stuck when the machine was running? It stopped running while I was running the machine. Is this a simple fix? It there any possibility the fuel injectors are bad? I would think if one injector is bad would still run. I am just trying to eliminate all issues. I really appreciate the help, I have 80 truck load of fill coming Monday and I really need to fix this issue.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
If the rack is in the shutoff position, the pumps will not build enough pressure to open the injector nozzle.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Right, but could it become stuck in the off position when the machine is running? Is it easy to get it unstuck? Is it a simple o-ring fix or would the pump need a rebuild. If this is not the issue is there any other issues you think it could be?
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
The governor or rack could have stuck while you were trying to bleed it out.It would not have happened running. I thought you said it was out of fuel?Yes, other problems are possible but, an old machine like this a stuck rack is not uncommon.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No it never ran out of fuel, it died when the machine was running. I then changed the fuel transfer pump, changed the oil, drained the tank, and bled the lines.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
Other issues will involve having the injection pump removed and rebuilt.It really depends on the condition of the fuel that was in the machine. The more rust in the fuel could relate to worn injection pumps.Engine oil that was not changed could relate to sticking rack or governor.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
After these additional steps were taken, it still will not run.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
With it being sprayed with ether is fires right up
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
What is the current fuel pressure during cranking?
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
Have you checked timing?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I am not sure if my brother check the pressure, I can easily test it tomorrow.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
We only cranked it and check to make sure all lines are getting fuel and it cycled through to the return line
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
The housing must see more than 10 psi during cranking to get it started.The fuel pressure running should be more than 30 psi
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
If the rack is not sticking and fuel pressure is good, check pin timing.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
If it is not would it be the pump?
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
If the pin timing is good, check the air supply to the engine and the valve lash. This is a small engine and air is important just like fuel.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
If air is good, THEN look at repairs on the fuel injection pump
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How would I check the pin timing?
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
you need a cat tool
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I ordered all new injectors and the rebuild parts for the injection pump.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
and a 3/8 bolt to set the flywheel
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Me changing the transmission filter and fluid would not affect this correct?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
This was all done prior to this issue occurring.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
turn engine to #1tdc and insert bolt into flywheel housing, then see if timing pin fits
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
bolt hole for flywheel is under the starter on the right side
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
are you seeing smoke when cranking?
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
no smoke from engine means the fuel is not getting injected.This goes back to the rack not moving.if you are getting smoke, then look at air supply and then timing.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Do you have instruction on setting the timing pin ? Can this be done in the field? The dozer is sitting in a dirt lot right now. From what I gather the timing pin it checked by removing a 3/8th bolt from the fly wheel, but I am not sure what you mean by 1tdc? I want to make sure I explain this to my brother.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
I have seen one that had such a compression loss, it would only run on ether. He knew it was worn out from all the oil burning and weak power it had but, just did not want to replace the engine.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
You will remove a plug that the 3/8 bolt slides into on the flywheel housing.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
There is no black smoke from the engine when I crank it.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
There is a funny off smell with almost a clearly hazy air that comes out
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
turn the engine until it is close to #1 cylinder (top dead center) and then slowly turn the engine until the bolt drops in the hole in the flywheel.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
This will lock the engine to #1 TDC. The fuel system timing pin should slide into the injection pump camshaft notch, it the notch is off more than half a hole, the timing is off.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
The gear on the pump must be loosened and then the timing corrected.This also requires another cat tool.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
FT1538 Fuel Pump Timing Gear PullerThis tool is not needed if you have enough room between the front of the engine and the radiator
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
If you need more help, I will be back here tomorrow night.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, I will attempt to try all of these things and if I need to I will attempt to correct the timing if needed.. Could the engine at all be bad? I mean it seem to run pretty good when spraying it with either.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Could this be as simple as a bad air filter?
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
No, you do not have any smoke.I have seen one (only one) weak engine do this
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The throttle shifter mechanism moves freely through the pump, does this machine have vacuum lines? It now has a new air filter. Could there be something in the tank causing me an issue, I read issues of algae being in gas lines, could this be my issue? How would I fix this issue?My brother is going to attempt to check the timing tonight.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
No vacuum lines. Diesels normally don't have vacuum as most are turbocharged. I have never seen it used on any CAT machine.You stated previously, you had fuel to the injectors. Are you not seeing fuel to the injectors now?If you see the fuel pulse out as it is cranking, then some pressure is getting to the injectors.Algae will plug the filters first, it usually grows in the tank, not in the pump. If you see it in your tank, it should be removed for steam cleaning and then add treatment to the fuel. It is likely in your storage tanks as well. Are you saying you removed the side cover and check the rack for free movement?Did you check the throttle to see if you can feel the shutoff detent click when you move the hand throttle to the stop position?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have fuel to the top lines on the outside of the manifold which I assume is getting to the injectors, I did not check on the inside of the manifold cover to see if fuel was going through the injectors. The fuel does pulse out when cranked to the outside line by the manifold.When I cleaned the screen on the old fuel transfer pump is did have a black gunk in it, I am not sure if that is algae, when I drained the tank something similar came out of the tank. Should I put a cleaner in the gas before steaming the tank. How would I steam the tank?I did remove the side coverage and the rack moves fines, it slides back and fourth with the shifter.
I am not sure I feel a click, but I know it is moving.
Expert:  catmastertech replied 1 year ago.
If the algae is thick in the tank, you will need to remove the tank to have it cleaned. Adding cleaners to the fuel may only make the problem worse if you do not clean the tank first. If you only see a small amount in the tank or drain lines, then cleaner would be ok. Your pump pressure could be too low to open the injector valves. New injectors will only be harder to start. Make sure batteries are fully charged and the cranking speed is fast. Try cranking with two fuel lines loose and two open to help purge out air. CAT injectors do not use a return line. Fuel pressure from the injection pump must be higher than the injector valve to force it open and push fuel through. Slow cranking will not allow the engine to start. Weak injection pumps will also cause it to not start. You may need to get it running on ether to see enough speed to force out all the air.