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spankyjr1, Journeyman
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 1928
Experience:  I worked on all types of equipment semis,forklifts,farm,ect.
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How do I time the fuel injection pump on a 1987 Deutz F3L 912

Customer Question

How do I time the fuel injection pump on a 1987 Deutz F3L 912 engine
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Expert:  Michelle-Mod replied 2 years ago.


Hi, I’m a moderator for this topic and I wonder whether you’re still waiting for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will do my best to find a Professional to assist you right away. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you. Thank you!


Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I'm still waiting.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
good morning my name is XXXXX XXXXX wait to rate until all your questions are answered. That way you won't get hit with additional charges.
First I need to know where you're at is the pump off? Is the front cover off?Is the valve cover off? Do you know where the timing marks are either on the crank pulley or on the flywheel you will need to find them to be able time the pump.
do you know how to put the pump on number one TDC?
we will work back and forth I will ask some questions I need this information so I can help you we will get it just have to be patient and take your time
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,My phone is acting up so bear with me. But anyway I will be working on it until Monday. Around 9:00 am pst
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Not a problem I will be on line about 8am [cst] or earlier on Monday so just answer the questions for me and I will get a email when you respond.
Have a great weekend stay cool spanky
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Well I can start by telling you where I'm at with the pump. The machine came from the military and someone removed the bolts from the drive gear but it is still on the motor but is unbolted. I could see this from with the idler pulley removed. The pump, the valve cover and the front cover are not removed, I would rather not remove the front cover unless its a must.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
we can do it without removing front cover, but the valve cover will need to be removed and that should be it.I will explain everything after you give me all the info I asked, talk Monday spanky
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
One more thing check this out and tell me if this is your generator?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRcIKyXtu6w
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
No
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
No, mine is a pump for pumping water or fuel
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Okay but the same engine that is our concern?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Yes its a Deutz F3L 912
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
okay talk Monday
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Are you available now?
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
yes I'm here
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Ok, I have the valve cover off and also the idler pully I also have the front pully on tdc but the pump and the pump gear is off. I do not know how to put the pump on tdc.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Ok, I have the valve cover off and also the idler pully I also have the front pully on tdc but the pump and the pump gear is off. I do not know how to put the pump on tdc.

The pump is not off just the gear.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Okay look at front off pump about were it meets the front cover there should be a o-ring type plug or pipe plug in the pump itself remove that plug it should be a 9/16 wrench look inside hole with flashlight you should see the camshaft off the fuel pump do you see it and you will also have to find a way to turn fuel pump drive without damaging pump camshaft were gear goes on let me know when you get there if you cant find it there then it should be on outside off pump about 1" higher then cam off pump tell me which one it is and if you see cam about at # XXXXX fuel line
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Cannot find the plug but I do see an allen type plug
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Were is the allen located the plug that needs to come out has to be in line with the cam off fuel pump like the fuel lines are lined up at top off pump so if you went straight down from there it would hit the cam off pump so the plug that needs to come out will be from the top down from lines that come out off pump so it will be inline with cam it will not be behind the last #6 line for nozzles.I hope you understand what I'm saying it is hard to explain but don't worry we will find it because once we find the rite plug you will take a bolt and put in the hole just a touch smaller so when you turn pump it will fall into a slot 1/4" in cam off pump and that will be #1 tdcc the cam has a slot in it so a timing pin can be installed to put it on #1
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I see a 1 inch plug in line of cam next to fuel line 3 but in is a allen type plug
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
That's ok I don't remember all of them but take it out then turn pump shaft and see if you can see shaft turn from that hole if you do it's the rite hole I take some brake clean and spray in there to remove oil film just a shot or two so you can see.also sorry about the wait time every body is hitting me at once I have 5 questions I'm going back and forth and also you didn't tell me crank is up to a mark were?and were are valves?for#1 &6
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I took the plug out and it is not the correct plug. I do not have a 6 cyl engine it a 3 cyl. I don't know where the valve locating is.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
ok I will find the correct location, while I'm doing that you start finding #1 tdcc. so what you can do now is bump your starter just enough to know what direction the crank turns then turn engine over by hand the same direction starter did with long ratchet on crank pulley watch your valves particularly exhaust valve on #1 cylinder it will start to go up as soon as it gets close to coming all the way back up the intake valve for #1 cylinder starts to go down and stop as soon as valves are the same height do not rotate back so go slow when you get close! look for timing mark you should have one on crank pulley if you don't let me know if it is on pulley and it is slotted mark it with a marker #1
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Do you remember that my engine is a Deutz F3L 912 with a Bosch pump?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Ok valves are at tdc now
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
I just spent 15 minutes typing up your answer off what you need to do and I hit answer and you hit reply and poof all gone I have to take a break be back in ten it's not your fault or mine they are having tech problems but it is so frustrating
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Are you still checking how to time my Bosch pump?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Relist: Incomplete answer.
Get me someone that knows how to set the timing on my pump.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
All I did was tell you I needed a break for 10 min I'm sorry I wasn't at your beck and call
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Good luck I will opt out so someone else can answer for you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Ten minutes should be ten not one hour
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
You are correct but my 21 yr old daughter called and told me she was stuck she locked her keys in her car that is why it took so long. If you accept my answer so far I will continue to help if not good luck I'm not gonna waste my time helping you only to have you give me negative feedback and then I won't get paid for my time
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Ok lets try it now
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
I will help you until we finish, but you have to accept my answer so I know I will get paid for helping you.Once you do that I will opt back in and work with you until finished it will not cost you anymore money .We will be able to talk back and forth until finished.If you don't accept my answer to this point I will not waste my time helping you and find out when we are done that I won't get paid This is not your fault, or mine,it is just one of the problems that the web site has.In the past, not with you, but I spent one month helping a guy through a major issue and he stiffed me, I did not get paid but the web sight got paid, so I'm just trying to make sure I get paid for my time.I know I can get yours done so don't worry about that, we just need to keep going you have to understand I've worked on a lot of equipment so I can't remember exact locations off every thing, but talking back and forth we can get it done.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I do not know how to accept your answer. Can you help me now after I accept your answer?
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Yes I will. When you rated me bad service it tells the system to not pay me, so all you have to do is rate above 3 or smiley face so I will get credit for helping.
This is not your fault and I'm not blaming you, it's the web sights problem and I have not been getting paid for my work.I apologize for there problem, they are supposed to be fixing,It is unfortunate that I have to do this just to get credit for my work so please do not take it personally
spankyjr1, Journeyman
Satisfied Customers: 1928
Experience: I worked on all types of equipment semis,forklifts,farm,ect.
spankyjr1 and 2 other Construction and Road Equipment Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
For now we will work out of this question and I will put in for a refund request for the other one you just opened,so let's get it going first and Thank you.
What you did with #1 cylinder as far as marking your crank do the same thing with other two cylinders so then you will have three marks on your crank 1,2,&3 while you are doing that i will look up pump timing.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Ok I cyl 1&2 have the same tdc. No. 3 is different.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Ok do you know this engine is counted from flywheel side so # 1 is closest to flywheel?
Any way you have them all marked,so let's move on.put engine at #1 Top dead center off the compression stroke.So mark on crank is on #1 and the rockers are loose for #1.
Then we have it were we need it do not turn engine any more.
Next remove #1 fuel line it may be easier to remove them all because they are tied together with small clamps.I take them all off it's much easier.
Next you do have a hand primer pump for fuel on it correct?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Yes I have a prime pump
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Yes I have a prime pump

Ok fuel lines off and cyl 1 on tdc
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,If you don't mind giving me quicker responses its only 114 degrees today.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Good. start pumping your hand pump slowly,put something under machine to collect fuel.This is the most critical part and makes all the difference so go very slowly.
Start pumping hand pump,you will see fuel coming out of were you took lines off at top of pump,start turning the pump shaft slowly, until fuel just stops coming out off #1 hole,stop turning pump,do a couple off times so you know you got it right.Now that put's you at start off injection.
Are there any marks on crank gear that have degrees on it?
Are there any specs on engine tags with timing spec?
Please only reply once it takes me time to think and type answers and when you do it twice it clears what I have already typed so I have to start over.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
if it does not have degrees on crank then do you have a degree wheel?
If not we will need to figure out how to mark your crank
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,No degree marks on crank just 1 mark on flywheel. I pumped the prime pump while turning the pump and no fuel comes out.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Check your filters you should have fuel coming out except when the individual pump reaches port closure.If you don't then something is wrong getting fuel to injection pump.
Do you feel pressure when you pump hand primer ?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I now got fuel to all three cyl but it is just small drops. I had the shut off solonoid in the off position
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
My mistake I forgot to tell you sorry.
Well the correct way to do it involves a lot off equipment that I don't even have,there is another way to do it but was hoping to get by without,so one more thing before we have to go the other way.
Look on your injection pump outer cam end, do you see a dot or hash mark on it?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I just put it all back together and its doing the same thing. I get lots of fuel but won't start
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
I did not tell you to start it was not ready!!!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Ok
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,So what do you want me to do now put everything back to where I was before I put everything back together
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
now put it back to were we were and I will finish tomorrow.
I did not answer any new questions today so I could give you, and two other customers my undivided attention, so we could get your stuff done.There's are finished and you would have been to. I won't be able to do that tomorrow, I will answer your questions, but it will be in the order in which I get them.
AND I TOLD YOU REPLY ONE TIME I HAD TO DO THIS TWICE AGAIN!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Ok but sence I don't have all month to finish this engine I'll try to get help from someone else. Like you said you did not tell me not to start it.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 2 years ago.
I would like to try and help. The engine, is a gear drive timing system. Not like the late Deutz that have a timing belt, is this not correct? The gears all should have timing marks on them, Crank, cam, and injection pump drive gear. All you need to do is line these marks on the drive gears. You will have to look through the hole for the injection drive gear to find them all. Might take some turning to get them all in site and aligned. The the pump is a keyed pump, all you have to do is line the key up with the slot in the gear and you will be in time and ready to run. Pump really requires no timing. Just match the key to the gear!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,That is incorrect the drive gear bolts onto the pump with three bolts but there is no location marks. There are marks on the drive gear to line it up to the crank gear but no marks where it bolts onto the pump.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 2 years ago.
If it has three bolts, typically the bolts are offset and will only go one way. You say all bolt holes line up , so it will go any of three positions?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The pump gear had no bolts when I purchased the unit. The gear has no reference marks for the bolts it can be put on in any position.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 2 years ago.
On most diesel engines have only one way the gear can be installed. Could they a dowel pin that is missing that the open hole would line up the two pieces?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

That is the first thing I looked for, I usually time them very easy but this German engine has me stomped

Expert:  Curtis B. replied 2 years ago.
The older engines were always fool proof. Is there some means the pump has line up pin that would lock it in one position? Which would let the gears line up and then the pump would line up with one set of holes, while it is in the locked position.??
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

The last expert asked me to find a line up mark on the pump by finding a plug and removing it but I found no plug to remove. I guess I do not understand what you are asking me.

Expert:  Curtis B. replied 2 years ago.
On the drive section of the pump, there could be a lineup hole that locks the pump in only one location. This would be the position the pump would be in the line up with the timing gear,
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Ok that makes sence I'll have to look tomorrow. I'll let you know
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I just checked and could not find any locating hole behind the drive gear.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 2 years ago.
The hole is more likely on the side of the pump, where it would lock the shaft or rotor , no behind the gear, but on the side. Do you have a local diesel pump shop that you could take it to and see if they could explain where the timing pin is?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I could not find any hole that is why I was asking you experts but I guess you guys don't know either.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 2 years ago.
i THOUGHT I MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP. SORRY. LET ME OPT OUT. HAVE A GOOD DAY.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
I will help you finish if you like, or you can wait for someone else, let me know. spanky
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

It just seems like you guys don't know how to help me. Maybe someone else does

Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
I was trying to help you but as I explained why I was not back in ten min before but you asked me to get some one else so do you want my help or not yes or no forget about the past and let's get it running Ok
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

i'm not near the engine anymore until Monday. What else do you what me to try when I get it back to where we left off?

Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
okay you need to get back to where we were, don't forget about putting the pump where the fuel comes out number one and just shuts off.
Then on your crankshaft of the engine back off opposite engine rotation 10°-15° that is the beginning of injection, tighten down your fuel pump and that's it.spanky
If you run in to problems let me know I will be here on Monday if this does not work there is one more way to do it without pulling pump.Hopefully you won't have to do that.
Have a good weekend Spanky
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Ok that makes sence I'll let you know Monday
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
The reason why there is so much confusion is, that unit can have 3 different Deutz pumps on it, not to mention it can also have different brand pumps on it,that is why I said at the beginning you have to be patient.But that's over so let's just forget about it and move on. take care Spanky
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I did all that you said now.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Ok were are you at, back to fuel coming out #1 on pump and just shutting off,and valves loose on #1?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,Ok I have the cyl closeset to the flywheel on tdc. I cannot get fuel to the cylinders by pumping the hand pump I can by turning the pump.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
That is all I want you to do rite now is, pump hand pump with fuel lines off of pump, turn pump only, until fuel just stops coming out of #1 pump, on the pump.That would put your fuel pump at beginning of injection.make sure you turn pump in direction of normal engine rotation of the fuel pump you can look at which way to go by engine gears when you turn over engine.make sure it is going the correct way or otherwise it will be wrong if I did not explain clear enough let me know it's important.
Both rockers loose on #1 closest to flywheel is correct, and the fuel line that goes to pump should also be to the flywheel.
Then you will have to o proximate 15degrees on crank pally make some marks to help half way is 180 1/4 is 90,and so on then back engine oppisite engine rotation then lock down fuel pump to fuel pump drive gear put all your lines back on and bleed air and try to start
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I already told you that I cannot get any fuel by pumping the hand pump only by turning the injection pump. So what I've done is turn the pump and when fuel starts coming out on cyl 1 I stopped. Is that good?
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
what is your firing order?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I don't know
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,1,3,2
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Now turn pump until #2 puts out fuel then stop turning pump.make sure you are turning in correct direction.then back off crank 15degrees and install fuel pump gear and lock down.
it should start and run now then you may have to loosen pump mounting bolts and turn pump while it is running until smoke clears and you have good power.
Then just to be safe check exhaust temp with a heat laser and see what your exhaust temp is.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
I have to go to doctor will check back when I get home
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I was wrong on the f order it is 1, 2, 3 so I did what you told me but instead of cyl 2 I did cyl 3 but the engine still does not start.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Then you have to do over, and do it with #3 also remove the shut down solenoid, just to eliminate electrical problems.It is only held on with two bolts or nuts.but you will have to push back in to stop engine.
Are you getting smoke while crancking?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I've decided to buy a deutz manual but I don't understand the picture that shows how to install the drive gear because it is fuzzy. Can I email you the pages and maybe you could help?
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Yes you can copy and paste to the inside of this box or call customer service from your side and either fax or email to me but one way or another it will get to me.They do not let us give or receive emails. so theirs no way to bypass the system unless we did something against the rules.I was trying to help you without pulling front cover,the book will only show you with cover removed.But send as much info as you can to make this easier.
I called customer service from a customer side last Friday and they did work quickly.
You may have to scroll to bottom of cage and use the contact us link and then it gives you a 800# I'm going to try and get it for you just in case.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
Here is the # for customer service I'm not using dashes in # and separating # on purpose because there system would otherwise block out888 next is8 6 2, next is 9212
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Well the pdf manual does not let me email the pages. There is a picture that shows how to orient the gear to the pump by using the woodruf key but the picture is all fuzzy and I cannot tell what it means. Can I fax it to you?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I finaly talked to Deutz and they told me that the only way to time the pump is to take it off and take it to a Bosch pump dealer and they have to lock it with a special tool then I could install it on the engine and then install the gear. Do you know of any other way?
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
you can pull #1 pump out and find top of cam of the fuel pump but that involves set up with special tools.The way I have done it is the same way I have explained to you.
There is a possibility that it won't start, because you actually have a pump problem,so know matter if you set up the way I explained,it still won't get it running.But the best way to do it is pull pump, and front cover and do it the correct way, but you did not want to pull front cover, and I have done this way before so if it is not working then you have a pump issue.
I know this way works because I have done it but you don't know what was wrong with it originally, so you are better off getting it checked.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
,I gave you a poor rating because you made me waste 3 days. You realty don't know how to time this pump I had to figure it out myself.
Expert:  spankyjr1 replied 2 years ago.
You know I understand your frustration with this, but you were the one who did not want to do the correct way.I spent a lot of time helping you, and now I don't get paid, even though you will be charged anyway.Have a good day spanky

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spankyjr1
spankyjr1
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I worked on all types of equipment semis,forklifts,farm,ect.