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455 olds: crankshaft..the bolts with the studs go onto..seals..crank

Resolved Question:

Hi I was trying to get an exploded view of the bottom of the crankshaft for an early model 455 olds there are three grooves for the rear main and it only has one rope seal in the middle groove and i want to be sure that is correct and i also am trying to figure out which mains the bolts with the studs go onto. I didnt disassemble this engine and needless to say nothing was marked.. but the seal location and the bolts are my main question and as far as the seals go what do the other two groves at the back of crank do if anything
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Classic Car
Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 2 years ago.

Dear Siir,

I have been in the automotive game over 50 years and there is NOTHING worse than what I call a BASKET CASE. It makes it almost impossible to figure out what was wrong intially and what and how the engine can be repaired and reassembled properly. So I feel for you because I have been there done that.

I had to go to a 1973 Olds in one of my data bases to find the limited information I have for you at this point. So let me give you that information and then I will try to follow up (as time allows) to get some additional and more specific information for you.

Here is what I have at this point:

Buick Built Engines
LOWER HALF
  1. Remove the oil pan and rear main bearing cap.
  2. Remove the old seal from the bearing cap and place a new seal in the groove with both ends projecting above the parting surface of the cap.
    Fig. 1: Installing rear bearing cap oil seals — Buick built engines

    Fig. 2: Apply a small amount of sealer to the split line — Buick built engines

  3. Force the seal into the groove by rubbing down with a hammer handle or smooth tool, until the seal projects above the groove not more than 1 16 in. Cut the end off flush with the surface of the cap. Use a razor blade.
  4. On the 231, 252, and 350, place new neoprene seals in the grooves in the sides of the bearing cap after soaking the seals in kerosene for a minute or two.
  5. To install, reverse the above. Use a small amount of sealer on the bearing cap mating surface. The engine must be operated at low rpm when first started, after a new seal is installed.
UPPER HALF

NOTE: Although the factory recommends removing the crankshaft to replace the top half of the oil seal, the following procedure can be used without removing the crankshaft.

  1. Remove the oil pan and rear main bearing cap.
  2. Loosen the rest of the crankshaft main bearings and allow the crankshaft to drop about 1 16 in.
  3. Remove the old upper half of the oil seal.
  4. Wrap some soft copper wire around the end of the new seal and leave about 1 2 in. on the end. Generously lubricate the new seal with oil.
  5. Slip the free end of the copper wire into the oil seal groove and around the crankshaft. Pull the wire until the seal protrudes an equal amount on each side. Rotate the crankshaft as the seal if pulled into place.
  6. Remove the wire. Push any excess seal that may be protruding back into the groove.
  7. Before tightening the crankshaft bearing caps, visually check the bearings to make sure they are in place. Torque the bearing cap bolts to specifications. Make sure there is no oil on the parting surfaces.
  8. Replace the oil pan. Run the engine slowly for the first few minutes of operation.
V8 Chevrolet Built Engines

The rear main bearing seal may be replaced without removing the crankshaft. Seals should only be replaced as a pair. The seal lips should face the front of the engine when properly installed.

  1. Remove the oil pan, and pump as previously outlined, and remove the rear main bearing cap.
  2. Pry the lower seal out of the bearing cap with a screwdriver, being careful not to gouge the cap surface.
  3. Remove the upper seal by lightly tapping on one end with a brass pin punch until the other end can be grasped and pulled out with pliers.
    Fig. 3: Fabricate an oil seal tool — Chevrolet and Oldsmobile built engines

    Fig. 4: Removing the upper half of the oil seal — Chevrolet and Oldsmobile built engines

  4. Clean the bearing cap, cylinder block, and crankshaft mating surfaces with solvent. Inspect all these surfaces for gouges, nicks, and burrs.
  5. Apply light engine oil on the seal lips and bead, but keep the seal ends clean.
  6. Insert the top of the installation tool between the crankshaft and the seal of the cylinder block. Place the seal between the tip of the tool and the crankshaft, so that the bead contacts the tip of the tool.
  7. Be sure that the seal lip is facing the front of the engine, and work the seal around the crankshaft using the installation tool to protect the seal from the corner of the cylinder block.

    NOTE: Do not remove the tool until the opposite end of the seal is flush with the cylinder block surface.

  8. Remove the installation tool, being careful not to pull the seal out at the same time.
  9. Using the same procedure, install the lower seal into the bearing cap. Use you finger and thumb to lever the seal into the cap.
  10. Apply sealer to the cylinder block only where the cap mates to the surface. Do not apply sealer to the seal ends.
  11. Install the rear cap and torque the bolt to specifications. Install the oil pan and pump as previously described.
V8 Oldsmobile Built Engines

The crankshaft need not be removed to replace the rear main bearing upper oil seal.

  1. Drain the crankcase and remove the oil pan and rear main bearing cap.
  2. Using a blunt-ended tool, drive the upper seal into its groove on each side until it is tightly packed. This is usually 1 43 4 in.
  3. Cut pieces of new seal 1 16 in. longer than required to fill the grooves and install, packing into place.
  4. Carefully trim any protruding seal, being sure not to scratch or damage the bearing surface.
  5. Install a new seal in the bearing cap and install cap, tightening bolts to 120 ft. lbs. (162 Nm), 107 ft. lbs. (145 Nm), on V6 diesel. Install the oil pan.

NOTE: I can get you torque specs for the bolts or studs that hold the rear main cap if you need or want them. If the clearance between the bearing insert and the crank is within tolerance you might want to consider using a "Sneaky Pete" to install the upper rope seal, so you do not have to pull the crankshaft out.

Here is a picture of the Sneaky Pete tool, if you need it:

Let me know if you have ever used one of these to reseal the upper half of the crankshaft.

Sincerely,

Dale

PS- I will look for a better picture for you and post it if I can find it.

Expert:  Dr. Hamman replied 2 years ago.

Hi, I am a professional certified mechanic, with an engineering background, and 35+ years experience. I will do my best to assist you. At Just Answer the deposit you pay is not payment to the Expert, I only get paid if you click on accept, we receive no other pay. I don't know if you are a pro or a novice so we may have to fine tune the answer. I only know as much about your problem as you have told me in your post, so my answer will be based on what you have posted. Feel free to add any additional info you feel is needed. If you are satisfied with the answer, and feel you can leave a positive feedback please click on accept. I don't get paid unless you do.

I noticed the last expert replied and posed a lot of info, but none of it answered your question. I have a differing opinion, and the answer so I thought I would reply to you. I have a lot of olds 455 experience, and I know these engines very well. The seal goes in the middle groove for sure. The inner groove isolates the seal from any oil pressure in the rear bearing, this helps to prevent leaks. Also the seal tool the other expert suggested is intended to be used when replacing the rear seal with the crankshaft in place so if the engine is disassembled you wont need that tool. Something else about the rear seal, the factory seal is an old style rope seal. I highly recommend that you replace it with a rubber seal. No rubber seals were made for this engine, but there is a common rubber rear main seal that is a perfect fit. Many places sell this other seal for 3 times what you can buy it for, because no manufacturer makes a rubber seal for the 455, and because of that, the places that sell the rubber seal inflate the price. The seal you need is a Fel Pro 2948. The original application is the 429 & 460 Ford engines, but it is a perfect fit in the Olds 455 and solves a lot of problems.

 

 

On the crank bolts with the studs, out of the factory these were not used. The aftermarket sold them to install windage trays to keep splashing oil off of the crank to increase power. Unless the basket case came with a windage tray, where you can match the holes with the windage tray, just install the bolts with the studs anywhere. If you have any more questions I am here to help. Good luck, and Thanks for using Just Answer.

I hope this helps, 100% satisfaction is my goal. Just Answer is here to serve you. If the answer is not clear, please let me know what additional help you need, and I will assist you further. When you're satisfied, click on the green accept button. I don't get paid unless you do. A bonus and positive feedback are always appreciated, good luck and Thanks.

Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 2 years ago.

Hello,

I was not aware that you had the engine out and disassebled. It that true or are you trying to reassemble what was taken appart from the bottom?

Dale

PS- I was not aware that the Fel Pro 2948 would work on a 455 but if the previous expert says it will then that's good enough for me.

Expert:  Dr. Hamman replied 2 years ago.

Hi, I am a professional certified mechanic, with an engineering background, and 35+ years experience. I will do my best to assist you. At Just Answer the deposit you pay is not payment to the Expert, I only get paid if you click on accept, we receive no other pay. I don't know if you are a pro or a novice so we may have to fine tune the answer. I only know as much about your problem as you have told me in your post, so my answer will be based on what you have posted. Feel free to add any additional info you feel is needed. If you are satisfied with the answer, and feel you can leave a positive feedback please click on accept. I don't get paid unless you do.

I have been using the Fel Pro 2948 seal for over 20 years, every since I bought a high priced rubber seal for the rear main on a 455, and found out by cross referencing the Fel Pro 2948 they sent me to see what Fel Pro made the seal for. All the big olds parts suppliers sell the exact seal with the inflated price, so it is nice to know how to save a buck or two. I dont mind spending money, I just hate wasting money. Anyway in the 20+ years I and the olds hot rod industry have been using these Fel Pro 2948's I have never seen even one problem, it is a rock solid retrofit. I do agree with Dale that basket cases are tough, but with some hard work you should be able to get it back together. If you are going to hop up this 455 there are a lot of little tricks to pull this off, and help the motor survive, and I can help you with it, I have built many of these, and I know them well.
If you have any more questions I am here to help. Good luck, and Thanks for using Just Answer.

I hope this helps, 100% satisfaction is my goal. Just Answer is here to serve you. If the answer is not clear, please let me know what additional help you need, and I will assist you further. When you're satisfied, click on the green accept button. I don't get paid unless you do. A bonus and positive feedback are always appreciated, good luck and Thanks.

Dr. Hamman, Technician
Category: Classic Car
Satisfied Customers: 5801
Experience: I have 30 years experience repairing, restoring, and customizing cars, and pickup trucks.
Dr. Hamman and 3 other Classic Car Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
thanks the engine is out and disassembled and was a definite basket case thank you both for your answers between the two the engine i already long blocked just waiting for some last minute assemblys Thanks again
Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 2 years ago.

Thanks for using JustAnswers.com.

All the Best.

Dale

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