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Robert R
Robert R, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 4085
Experience:  28 years experience, ASE Master Certified, Chrysler Master Certified, Sprinter Van Certified
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2001 Town and Country 3.8, 288k Miles. PLugs and wire in

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2001 Town and Country 3.8, 288k Miles. PLugs and wire in June at 282k miles. Now has p0172 bank 1 rich after warms up and runs rough for a few weeks, then threw p0301,303, and p0305. still gets 17mpg in city. had not done much highway as of late to test that. fuel system is closed on real time data log from obd scanner Really tight on cash right now and cant afford to take to shop. Debating MAP sensor replacement to counter the rich condition, but ponder why only bank 1 rather than both banks. can replace coil easy enough as well, I am sure the rich has caused the misfires all along bank 1. But have to pull wiper assbly to replace plugs and want to try and problem solve all at once as i kinda need the car for work.

Hello, welcome and thanks for asking your question. My name is*****'m a Certified Auto Technician with 29+ years experience. I will do my best to assist you. please keep in mind that I may need to ask questions of you before I can answer. When you reply please feel free to add as much detailed information as possible pertaining to your concern.

I am researching this concern for you and will get back with you as soon as possible, Thanks for your patience while I gather the information needed for your answer. Your understanding is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Robert

Can you post the last 8 digits of the VIN so that I can do some research on this concern for you?

Thank you,

Robert

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
1R155627

Hello,

I have been researching your concern and now have a bit of information for you...Let me know if you are missing any info or need an explanation of anything posted here...

Sorry for the delayed response, was offline yesterday...

Now on to my answer and thoughts on this one...

First, I'll address one of your statements:

You stated: "Debating MAP sensor replacement to counter the rich condition, but ponder why only bank 1 rather than both banks."

A 2001 T&C only has one Catalytic Converter and two O2 Sensors, "Upstream and Downstream" that are mounted on the exhaust manifold and in or behind the Catalytic Converter. Because this vehicle ONLY has two O2 Sensors, one upstream and one downstream, the wording on "Generic" code readers would read "bank 1" for a problem with either of these two sensors. Your vehicle does NOT have a "Bank 2" where O2 Sensors are concerned. For there to be a "bank 2" on O2 sensors, your vehicle would have to have two Catalytic Converters and four O2 sensors. So basically for your van you would ignore the "Bank 1" part of the wording as it causes some confusion.

Now on to what I actually think is wrong with the vehicle. I am suspecting that the O2 sensors are actually bad, with over 200k on the clock and never being replaced, I suspect that the O2 sensors are plain "Worn out" and not reading the oxygen content in the exhaust properly. The Upstream sensor reporting a "Rich" condition when it is actually not rich will in turn cause your rough running engine and cylinder misfire codes. Basically what happens is the PCM takes the bogus "Rich" data from the O2 sensor and plugs it in to the program and actually causes the engine to run way to "Lean" which is causing the "Lean Misfire" on the 1,3 and 5 cylinders.

Because of this, I would avoid MAP Sensor replacement and go ahead and start with the O2 sensor replacement (Both of them) since there are no MAP sensor codes.

Let me know if I confused you more and if you have any additional questions. I'll do my best to explain why I have came to this conclusion...

Keep me posted and let me know if you have any additional questions...

Thank you,

Robert

Hello,

I just wanted to check in with you to see if you need more help with your concern. A non rated question normally times out within 7 days, so I wanted to stay in contact with you to see if the problem has been solved.

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Hi, My Name is ***** ***** for posting your question to just answer. I am a independent contractor for just answer. ASE Certified Master Auto Technician with 20 years experience. I am confident we can resolve your problem together.Please remember I don't know your skill level. I can't see, smell, hear, or touch the vehicle. It may take a few back and forth replies to get to a satisfactory resolution.There will probably be some equipment needed for a proper diagnosis. If you are not comfortable with this or do not have any test equipment please let me know ASAP. I also give you all of the information you may need in good faith expecting a positive rating. I am not compensated for my time until you leave a positive rating. Your rating should be based on the service you received.

Do you still need assistance?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
OK I am finally able to get back in to answer. I have the O2 sensors delivered today and will install over weekend and see where we are at from there. It would not let me in, nor would justanswer help me out. I evidently registered years ago to answer medical things and once i logged back in all i saw was ya'lls side of the questions. I could try and take it over but not reply.

OK. Let me know if you need further assistance

Hello, I'm not sure what happened, I didn't opt out. Was waiting for a response from you and all of a sudden Toolhut chimed in. I'm still available to continue when you are ready and if you opted me out, no problem just let us know who you are working with...

Thank you,

Robert

Customer: replied 29 days ago.
Yeah I'm not sure what happened either and then when I tried to come back in and answer It tried to list me as an expert. Because I had registered years ago for a radiology issues. Ultimately the O2 sensor did not fix it. The more and more I researched I went ahead and replace the EGR valve and it fixed it. Again running great while it's cold as soon as it warms up is when it starts to miss and sputter and stall. my long term fuel trim was at -25 and now it's back down there a reasonable six or seven in the negative
Customer: replied 29 days ago.
I'm going to try to do a good write-up to post on some of the forums. Because this is contrary to everything I have read out there.

That was strange that there was no EGR codes. Normally if the EGR valve is leaking it means the valve is not fully seated. This normally ends up causing a EGR Position Sensor code to set. That was a good call on the EGR valve replacement. It must have been leaking and didn't cause the PCM to set codes against it...

Glad you were able to get it solved on your own....

Keep me posted and let me know if you have any additional questions...

Thank you,

Robert

Customer: replied 29 days ago.
My reasoning was I was helping my grandfather work on his car and I had some time and brain capacity to sit and think about it started thinking about air getting into the intake that was not accounted for by the map. Because I had sprayed everywhere looking to find leaks and whatnot
Customer: replied 29 days ago.
Now I'm debating on replacing the EGR valve on my daughter's 1999 Chevy Suburban with 5.7 350. It has new cats and new O2 sensors a couple years ago before I bought it but still throws catalytic converter inefficiency code. And has high nitrous oxide levels on emissions. It's 50 bucks I'm going to give that a shot as well

Yes, EGR is about the ONLY thing that can allow additional "Air" into the engine that can result in a "Fuel System Rich" code. Any type of vacuum leak would have resulted in a "Fuel System Lean" code with the exception of the EGR valve because the EGR flow does NOT have any oxygen content, it just takes up "Space" to cool the combustion process.

You can try the EGR on the Chevy, it's worth a try. As for the cat efficiency code, it can be also caused by inferior quality cat converter or O2 sensors, just keep this in mind in case these parts were not replaced with Genuine GM parts....

Thank you,

Robert

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Robert R, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 4085
Experience: 28 years experience, ASE Master Certified, Chrysler Master Certified, Sprinter Van Certified
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