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sprinkles08
sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 21599
Experience:  ASE Master & Advanced level certified, Chrysler Master Certified, Trans and Hybrid Specialist
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I have a 2001 pt cruzier. It battery is good. But when I go

Customer Question

I have a 2001 pt cruzier. It battery is good. But when I go to turn the key nothing happens with the starter. If I leave the key in the run position with the dash on for about 15 min it will turn over but won't start. It started once but would only stay running with me giving it more fuel with the pedal.it gave two codes . P0403 egr flow circuit and p1490 . Couldn't find what that was. I changed the egr two years ago.
Submitted: 10 months ago.
Category: Chrysler
Expert:  Jon Scott replied 10 months ago.

Hi my name is ***** ***** ASE Master tech. Try this first Check fuse #12 in the junction block located in the vehicle on the driver's side of the instrument panel. This fuse powers the control side of the low, high fan and A/C clutch relays. It sends power to the Leak Detection Pump (LPD) located by the fuel tank.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
The fuse is good. Also when I reconnected the battery it turned over but wouldn't start. I turned the the key off then tried to start it again the car wouldn't turn over and the yellow engine light was flashing
Expert:  Jon Scott replied 10 months ago.

1. Check the Automatic Shut Down (ASD) relay operation by getting some one to start the car. Check that the Relay clicks and the voltage cycle to the coil.

2. Check the voltage at the ASD relay pins 30 and 86 for voltage. Jump pins 30 and 87 to bypass the ASD relay. Battery voltage should be available on the Dark Green/Orange wire at the ignition coil.

3. Check the Dark Green/Orange wire between the ignition coil and the power distribution center for breaks.

This ASD relay is located with in the fuse box under the hood a quick check with your finger on the ASD while some one tries to crank the car you should feel a slight vibration if you don't feel a click try tapping on it with a end of a screwdriver as some one tries to start the car.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
As I was doing what you suggested. I tried something. I hit lock on the key fob. Hit unlock then put the key in to start it and it started. But if I turn the car off it will not start again. If I remove the key wait a few seconds then hit lock then unlock insert key then it will star and run.
Expert:  Jon Scott replied 10 months ago.

Great I'm glad you are narrowing it down. This my sound a little strange but trust me this is a common procedure and will not harm any thing. Disconnect both of your battery cables and touch them together for 30 seconds then reconnect the cables. This will reset all of the modules.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I did what you said and it's the same thing. But my trick with the key fob doesn't work all the time. But I do notice that when it's not going to start or even turn over I can't hear the fuel pump. When it does start I can hear the fuel pump first. Do you think it could be the computer that's doing it? This is my only car and it's killing me that I can't figure it out.
Expert:  Jon Scott replied 10 months ago.

Did you check the ASD relay?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I replaced it with a new one.
Expert:  Jon Scott replied 10 months ago.

Are you using the grey key?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I am using the Grey key
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
It's weird that when I don't hear the fuel pump it won't even turn over. But when I hear the fuel pump it will and most of the time start up.
Expert:  Jon Scott replied 10 months ago.

Is the tachometer/ rpm giving a reading as you are trying to start it?

Expert:  Jon Scott replied 10 months ago.

At this point a scan tool will be needed to scan for codes with in the skim this is the module that secures the car and keeps it from being started unless the have the key. It will keep the fuel pump from operating and the spark plugs from getting spark. The code reader that the auto parts stores use the will not read the code produced by the skim module a professional scan tool will be needed the cost of these start at 300 and up. Sound like the skim or the pcm ( computer) may be the problem. The pro scan tool will verify this. Most shops will have this type of scan tool.

I wish I could give you more to go on.

Expert:  Jon Scott replied 10 months ago.

I will put this back up to see if any one of our other professionals may be able to help you. If I think of any thing else I will let you know.

Good Luck Jon

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 10 months ago.

Hello and welcome to Justanswer!

The reason you don't hear the fuel pump and the starter doesn't engage is the powertrain control module is not awake. The PCM is the module that controls all engine functions.

A scan tool cn be used to see if there is communication with the PCM for sure during the no start, but I have little doubt that it is not communicating. the problem could be the PCM itself or a lack of power or ground to it. A lack of power or ground could be a wiring issue, a lost power feed may be the ignition switch itself. Electrical testing will need to be done at the time the problem is happening to determine whether the PCM is awake for sure and to see if the powers and grounds are present.

The fact that you did find fault codes tells you that it's retaining memory so it's ground and constant battery feeds are likely ok. The PCM is definitely a possible cause but if it's retaining memory through the event it's less likely to be the PCM itself. It's more likely that the PCM is missing it's ignition switched power feed at the time this is happening.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
The fuel pump will go on some times and the starter won't work. The the fuel pump wont but the starter will turn the engine over. Does the skim unit control spark, fuel and starter or does the pcm? If not then I will try to replace it.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Also . Do I need to have it flashed or can I just plug one in. Is there something I need to do because of the skim unit?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 10 months ago.

SKIM allows the engine to start, run for two seconds and die three times before locking the starter out.

Your previous posts said that when the starter won't engage the fuel pump doesn't run either. Is that not correct?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
No. The fuel pump will run but the starter won't work. Then when I try it again the starter will work but the fuel pump wont run.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 10 months ago.

When the starter does engage the engine still will not start then?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Only when the fuel pump goes on at the same time. Then it will run.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 10 months ago.

Does it have spark when it cranks but doesn't start?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
When it cranks, sometimes. The car will start every now and then. But at random times. And will run fine at idle and in gear. I have not driven it for fear of being stuck.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 10 months ago.

IF it's losing spark then there will be a related fault code set.

Has injector pulse been checked when spark isn't present?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Codes are p1490 and p0403. I have no checked injector pulse.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 10 months ago.

I did see the codes posted earlier but neither are related to loss of spark which is why I question if there is really spark.

Do you have ASD voltage at the coil when cranking when it doesn't start?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
When I checked I did have spark
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 10 months ago.

Your post earlier this morning said that it sometimes has spark?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
only when I was able to turn the car over.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 10 months ago.

There is little chance you don't have more than one problem going on, the lack of starter engagement doesn't share anything in common with intermittent fuel pump operation.

Do you have a test light?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
No I don't have a test light. What could cause the intermittent fuel pump and starter issue at the same time. Cause some times it starts and runs but for the most time it doesnt
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 10 months ago.

One of your posts said that the fuel pump and starter issues happen at the same time, another post said they only happen separately. Which is correct? If they happen separately then the problems are not related.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Some times the fuel pump wont go on whit the starter not working and some times the will work with out each other. Like every now and then the car will run . As if nothing was wrong. But turn the car of and it will happen all over again.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 10 months ago.

The PCM not being awake will cause a loss of the fuel pump and starter together, whether it's a loss of power or ground or the PCM itself.

The fuel pump issue may be unrelated and coincidentally sometimes happens along with the starter not engaging, and the starter not engaging could be the ignition switch, ignition switch actuator, the starter, relay,transmission range sensor or wiring. It will take electrical testing at the time each problem is happening to determine exactly what is going on.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I heard the last time I tried to start the car the relays for the fuel pump and the asd started switching on and of fast when I turned the ignition on
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 10 months ago.

That's most likely due to the PCM not waking up correctly.

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