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sprinkles08
sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 22371
Experience:  ASE Master & Advanced level certified, Chrysler Master Certified, Trans and Hybrid Specialist
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2000 Sebring JXI Convertible 2.5L

Customer Question

One more thing that I find weird. I've been looking at the ODBII data all along and was always getting 2 modules worth of data. This morning, I only get module 41.

It didnt save my other info about the symptoms of the current issue. No Start, no spark. Just changed fuel pump and battery. Fuses and relays all look good and I'm getting ASD click with key in start. Starter engages but no spark.

Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Chrysler
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 2 years ago.
Hello and welcome to JustAnswer!
There are quite a few things that can cause lack of spark. A failed cam or crank sensor or incorrect cam timing would be likely causes of a loss of spark if the ASD relay does power on for about two seconds when the key is first turned on.
ARe any fault codes setting?
What year, model and engine is the vehicle?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

This is a 2000 Sebring JXi Convertible with a 2.5L engine. No codes anymore, but right before this problem I had changed out the manifold gaskets and was chasing down what I thought was a vacuum leak because I kept getting a idle speed not reached code. That was a few weeks ago; it was running but with a high idle. Then a new problem surfaced where it would not engage into drive fully when the accelerator was pressed. It would act like it was in limp mode and I'd have to pull over and let it cool down before it would drive again. The only code at that time was P1294. About a week worth of that and then it started this no start thing. Got a new battery because the old one wasn't cranking out enough amps, alternator tested out good. I'd replaced the Crankshaft Position Sensor a few months ago (twice) and the plug to that is sketchy, was thinking of just cutting it out entirely and soldering the connections to make sure it was a good one, but hadn't gotten around to it because it seemed to be working. Do you think I should go after that first?

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 2 years ago.
Does the tach move slightly when cranking?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

No movement on the tach.

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 2 years ago.
Do you have a scan tool to monitor actual data?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

My previous reply said I got a code of P1294, so yes...I have a scanner. Troubleshooting last night with a friend going through each cylinder to check spark and we got spark on all cylinders. When testing the last one, the car actually turned over! The plugs looked pretty worn so I went out and got new ones...Bosch platinum 2 thinking this was the problem all along. Put those in and tried to start it, nothing. Back to no start, no spark. Scanned with the OBD-II reader and now again Module 40 is not showing. I was just able to see that module, and that one contains all the readings for O2 sensors, fuel trim, MAP sensor, etc. We checked all the plugs and they are all plugged in securely. Would appreciate more info to try than just one sentence questions.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Relist: Answer quality.
The last 2 responses were not even answers, they were questions and seemed like the tech was not reading my info.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

there is no need to relist the question, if you need more help simply press the reply button.

I'm not at the vehicle to diagnose it in person so I have to be able to ask questions. I have only information that is supplied in your post so if there is something I need to know I have to ask. I don't have a way of knowing what equipment you have without communication.

What is crank RPM while cranking?

Does is show cam/crank in sync while cranking?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Man I am so frustrated, you don't even know. I've been working on this car for months now. Started with the control arm but it has been non-stop issues with this latest one being that it won't start. So please bear with me.

I have a Centech OBD scanner. It is not the bottom of the line model, but not the top either. Other than that, I have testing lights, a multimeter.

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.
Are you able to monitor crank sensor RPM and cam/crank sync/
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

No

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Does the dark green/orange wire at one of the injectors have power while cranking?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Yes

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.
If you connect the alligator clip of the test light to battery positive, backprobe with a paperclip or T pin on the gray/black wire in the coil connector, touch the test light to the alligator clip and crank the engine, does the light continually flash?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

1. Where do I find this gray/black wire in the coil connector?

2. How can I have power to the injectors when cranking but no spark?

3. I just got another code to display, P0123. I tested the TPS and it seems to be behaving the way it is supposed to although the voltage seems a little low. The highest I get it to read is 3.8.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

No. When I connect it to positive, the test light lights up. When I crank the engine, the light dims but does not flash.

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.
Does the engine crank at a normal speed, or does it seem faster than normal or uneven?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

It seems slower than normal if anything. I ran the battery dead and have to use an additional battery to jump it. What are these questions point you toward?

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

With the test light set up the same way at the distributor connector, if you unplug the PCM connectors does the test light still light up?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Which connectors? Can you send me a pic of exactly what you want me to disconnect? And also, won't that hurt the PCM to disconnect it while the battery is still connected? What part are we troubleshooting here in this step?

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

The powertrain control module is the module near the power distribution center and has two large gray connectors.

It won't hurt anything to disconnect the PCM; electrical testing can't be one with the battery disconnected.

I'm trying to determine if the coil driver circuit is shorted.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

With the test light probed on that wire, it lights up even when the key is off. Removing the PCM's don't change the light, the light remains on.

I did notice that the CPS plug was not looking like it's in good condition. When I removed the bolt that holds it in place, the bolt plus part of the mounting area came off with it. Can I bad or not secure Crankshaft Position Sensor give me the issues I'm having?

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.
a loss of crank sensor signal will cause lack of spark, but your coil driver circuit may be shorted to ground. Does the test light go out with the distributor and PCM unplugged?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

No, test light stays lit.

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.
The coil driver wire is shorted to ground in the harness between the PCM and distributor if the light stays lit with the PCM and distributor unplugged.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

No, test light stays lit. I didn't unplug the distributor so let me do that and report back.

As an aside, I went to the wrecking yard and pulled a near complete harness from a Sebring there. The harness (and car overall) seems to be in much better shape. The only ends that were cut off I believe go to around the front bottom of the engine and then the starter.

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.
Go ahead and check with the distributor unplugged also, if it still lights then the wire is shorted.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

I unplugged the distributor (the 6 pin plug that was the easier of the 2 to reach and also the plug that we are back probing correct?) and the light is no longer on.

The new harness I got is in much better shape than mine, with only the alternator and starter wiring cut off. The plug to the Crankshaft position sensor is all there too (unlike mine, which I had zip tied together) and it even has the PCM (black) plug so I think I'm going to go ahead and replace the old harness to rule out shorts of any kind as well as take care of the CPS plug issue. Any issue with using the PCM that came with the harness or should I take the current one out of my old harness and swap it into the new?

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.
It would be best to leave your PCM in place unless it proves to have failed.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Had some other things come up that made the harness swap take more time than I wanted. Should be done with that this afternoon and will reply back with what the same test shows for that harness. All things equal, I'll have a solidly connected Crankshaft Position Sensor and TPS at the same time.

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.
Great!
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Sorry for not being more timely. I do realize you are trying to complete a job here to get whatever payoff they offer. My payoff will be this car on the road today. THe only running car is not shifting and/or slipping out of gear and is pretty scary to drive. My girlfriend (hella pregnant) today has driven her last ride in that thing so there is even more pressure to get this done today.

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.
I hope that takes care of it!