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garrtim, service manager
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1995 eagle talon. it started with a hesitation..it started shutting

Customer Question

i have a 1995 eagle talon. it started with a hesitation while driving. then it started shutting off while driving. now it may start but will not run for more than a few minutes and it will shut off. it may not start again for a few days but no matter what it won't run more than a few minutes. when it first started it would shut off while driving and i had to wait 20 minutes or so and it would start back. did not know how long it would run could be a few minutes could be all day. now (like i said) it won't run for more than a few minutes. the ground for the automatic shutdown relay disappears. i also do not have any power to the cam sensor. i have replaced the fuel pump and relay, asd relay. injectors, ignition, ecm, crank sensor. the oldest thing is the cam sensor it is about 2 years old. i took out all the engine harness and fixed every little nick i found. it has just gotten worse so that i cannot even drive it know. any ideas. i just put the ecm in today and it ran for a few minutes again and the last time i checked (afew hours later) it still would not start.
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Chrysler
Expert:  Mopar Certified replied 2 years ago.
Welcome to Just Answer Chrysler my name isXXXXX don't know your automotive experience level, so I may need to alter the answer to your needs.

New or used ecm?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
new ecm. i am a diesel mechanic for 15 years. this car is driving me nuts.
Expert:  Walt-mod replied 2 years ago.

Hi,

 

I'm a moderator for this topic and I wonder whether you're still waiting for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will do my best to find another Expert to assist you right away. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you. Thank you!

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i am still waiting for an answer. thanks
Expert:  Walt-mod replied 2 years ago.
Sometimes, finding the right Expert can take a little longer than expected and we thank you greatly for your understanding. We'll be in touch again shortly.
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.

hello, when it does not start -- does the radiator fan work?

 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i dont know. never checked to see or made it come on. i will onlt run for a few minutes so it is not even getting warm.
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.
There is an old bulletin I found that refers to a condition such as this. They are talking about a wiring harness front of engine related to cooling fans that develops corrosion over time and act like this. I would trace wiring back from cooling fan and inspect. It would also serve us well to get computer scanned for any fault codes
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
last time i had it checked i did not have any codes. i had it checked several times in january. the fans work fine when it would run. a couple of weeks ago it would run for awhile and i could hear the fans kick on and off at times. so this bulletin says that corosion in the fan wiring can cause the car to shut off and now it won't start.
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.

sorry for delay-- the bulletin said one of the issues could be that rad fan was not working when condition was present---- at this point it appears we have a wiring issue

 

when turning key to turn on -- does the check engine light come on on the dash and go throught its bulb check

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i don't know i took the check engine light out cause when i rebuilt the engine i got the timing off a tooth and the light staid on all the time. i did check for power at pins 11, 17, and 54 at the ecm. checked ground at pins 2, 22, and 52. all power and ground was good, but it would not start. just put an new ecm in it last week.
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.

have you gone back in an verified the timing -- we have all power and grounds to ecm -- if i had to bet -- i think our problem is just that it is out of time

 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i have been running it that way since early 2010. it runs great, when it runs. the ecm is taking away the ground for the asd relay. i was told as long as it ran good that i would not have to reset the timing.
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.
Timing is used by ecm to fire coil. Before you start swapping parts I would checktiming
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i ran it just over 600 miles a week for a few months after i rebuilt it going back and forth to work. if the timing was causing a problem wouldn't it have happened then.
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.
Not if it has jumped. also we need to look at the crank sensor also. That controls spark. But I still think timing is off
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i have already replaced the crank sensor. if it jumped a tooth why would it still run good for awhile then shut off and restart and run for who knows how long before it would shut offagain and it got worse so now it may not start for days and when it does it will only run for a few minutes before shutting off. would that cause the the computer to take away the ground for the asd relay?
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.

wiring with an intermittent connections -- corrosion or a spread terminal

 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
if it were wiring to a sensor wouldn't it have given a code. could it be any wiring in the dash. what wiring would cause it to shut off and not give a code.
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.

here is what i have --

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:

Corrosion of the front end wiring harness connector or two wire splice joints may cause varying conditions such as check engine light on, no start, hard start, and or radiator/condenser fan inoperative. The symptoms may be intermittent and Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) may or may not be present.

 

REPAIR PROCEDURE:

This bulletin involves hard wiring the connector location and repairing two splice joints.

  1. Record all radio presets, disconnect and isolate the negative battery terminal.
  2. Raise the vehicle on a hoist and remove the left front wheel and splash shield.
  3. Locate the A-32 connector for Talon models or A-37 connector for Avenger/Sebring models (The connector is a 12 way with a black insulator.
  4. Disconnect the connector and carefully inspect the male and female terminals for any corrosion.
  5. If corrosion is found, cut the connector from the harness and splice the wires together as listed in step number 6. If no corrosion is found, proceed to the splice repair in step number 7.
  6. Remove one inch of insulation from each wire end and place a piece of heat shrink tubing, P/N(NNN) NNN-NNNN over each wire. Twist the same color wires together and solder each splice with rosin core solder. Center the heat shrink tubing over the repaired area, and heat until the tubing is tightly sealed and sealant flows from each end.
  7. Remove the two bolts that hold the left corner of the upper fascia to the body. Move the fascia outward to provide better access to the splices.
  8. If the vehicle is ABS equipped, remove the shield from bottom of the control unit.
  9. Locate the two splice joints ( It will be necessary to remove the wiring from the protective convolute and any electrical tape to gain access to the splices.
  10. Inspect both splice joints for any corrosion. If corrosion is found, remove the corroded portion and re-splice the same colored wires together. Use the procedures outlined in step number 6 to properly repair the splices.
  11. If no corrosion is found at the splices, re-solder them using rosin core solder and seal each section with 3M Electrical Moisture Sealant Patch, P/N 06149, or Tape, P/N 06147.
  12. After the repair, place the wires back into the convolute. Wrap electrical tape around the convolute to prevent the wires from protruding.
  13. Install the ABS control unit shield (if equipped), fascia, splash shield and wheel. Lower the vehicle.
  14. Connect the negative battery cable and set the radio presets recorded in step number 1. Set the clock to the appropriate time.
  15. Verify proper operation of the vehicle before returning it to the customer.

 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i have the harness out from the fuse box to where it goes into the car and i do not see any 12 way connector. i found several splices and did not find any corrosion on any of them.
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.
this is almost impossible over the internet with out being there to see what we got --- these older imports are very tough to diagnose as you well know---- and without being any fault codes -- there is not any test we can do-- check link to factory no start check

Attachment: 2012-02-17_194243_7_1_5_no_start_tests_ns.pdf

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
do you think that a bad clutch switch could be the issue. because i took it out and tested it and it is bad.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
do you have a diagram of how the wires hook to the crank sensor. according to my book they are hooked wrong, but it has run for more than a year that way. i rehooked them the way the haynes book said and it did nothing. i just want to make sure that i have it hooked up right. other than that i have once again taken the entire engine harness out and checkec for continuity and did not find anything wrong. i haven't found any corrosion or any problems with the wiring. sorry about the dumb clutch switch question. i've seen dumber stuff, but i know that cannot do it.
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.
Wiring diagrams at work. Will not be able to ck until Monday
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

that would be great i just want to make sure i have them hooked up right. according to my haynes book as you look at the sensor 1 should be signal output. 2 is power supply. 3 is ground.

Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.
According to manual that is correct
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
it's a bwd crank sensor. is there any way that it could have run for more than a year if it was hooked up wrong?
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.
not possible
garrtim, service manager
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 6156
Experience: 20+ years chrysler certified
garrtim and 7 other Chrysler Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i didn't think so. i have to find my puller so i can check the timing. i don't know when that will be. i will let you know what i find.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i checked the timing today and it was the same as when i set it. any other ideas. the timing on these things is a pain to set. i tried to seset it and i am still about a half tooth off. i messed with this thing for a couple of hours and i could not get it right. i figured while i had it apart i would get it right, but every time i get the cams lined up perfect i have slack in the belt between them. but it had not jumped at all so do you have any other ideas.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
is there any way that it could be the knock sensor. there are two sensors on the back of the engine one is the knock sensor do you know what the other one is.
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.
i will post picture for you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
ok thank you
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.

sorry for delay -- having issues with format of info I have

 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
ok thanks. post it when you can. is there any way that a bad knock sensor could cause it to shut off. i don't know if it's bad, but i am running out of things to check.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
it finally got kind of warm and i put the car back together. i put the check engine light back in so i could check again for codes. the car started and ran fine. i must have gotten the timing right because the check engine kight stays out now. before it was always on because the timing was off a tooth. it did not look like it was off from when i put it back together, but so far it is starting and runnining fine. no codes at all. so it could have run for a year and a half with the hesitation because of the timing being off, and then just start shutting off. i don't know what happened, but so far it seems to be running good. i'll finish putting it back together and take it for some drives and see what happens. thanks again
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.

GOOD!!!!!!!-- do not do or touch anything-- and thank you for the follow - up info-- take care and thanks for staying with me on this,Tim

 

garrtim, service manager
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 6156
Experience: 20+ years chrysler certified
garrtim and 7 other Chrysler Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i appreciate your help. i would have never thought that it was the timing after running so long that way. my wife was right it was something that i was overlooking. i'll let you know if it keeps working. thanks again.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

the indicator light on the right lower ( by the speedo) has come on. it is the lowest most right light. it looks like a radiator about half full. i think the low water one is the upper most left light on the right side of the speedo. i do not have a owners manual. any idea what this light is. i do not have a resevoir tank and i never have and that light has never come on until now.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
it shut off again while driving down the road monday. i went back a few hours later and it still would not start. went back with a trailer and it started. it would not start for a few hours though and then it just started. any other ideas.
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.
i need to rethink this one - I will get back to you--tim
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
ok thanks
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

it won't start today at all. i did notice that the check engine light does not come on when the key is turned on. it was coming on last time i knew. i did the flip on and off to check codes last week and now it is not coming on at all. i switched it with another light and it still would not come, but the other light did. i still have power at pins 11, 1 and 54. grounds at 2, 22, 52. is there some power or ground that i am not checking. cause it seems to me that if the check engine light doesn't come on with the key that the ecm is missing a power or ground.

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