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garrtim
garrtim, service manager
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 6136
Experience:  20+ years chrysler certified
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Chrysler PT Cruiser: 2002 pt 2.4 had pcm checked no problems

Customer Question

2002 pt 2.4 had pcm checked no problems had 0340 code fixed that,had code 0320 fixed that car trys to start 4 times with starting fluid ran for 30 sec,stopped fireing at plugs ,have power to coil and fuel pump runs for 2 sec,then i lose all power when i hit start,i have no codes
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Chrysler
Expert:  garrtim replied 2 years ago.

garrtim :

hello, the security is activated- do you have another key or the remotes?

Customer :

this is black key not gray so no alarm is in place from dealer ,but i do have a extra key

garrtim :

what is the last 8 digits of the vin #?

Customer :

2t371924

Customer :

also tried differnt key and still wont start

garrtim :

this car is equipped with standard factory specs

garrtim :

try to lock and unlock the drivers door with key or with remote and see if it starts

Customer :

still wont start

garrtim :

do you have a scan tool?

garrtim :

if so -- I want you to read the pcm vin # XXX see if it matches the car

Customer :

this pcm was sent out 3 weeks ago they said nothing wrong with it it was org from the car

garrtim :

I understand that is what they said -- but to know for sure we need to check ourselves

Customer :

p/n po5033664ac

Customer :

that is the same code number when i sent it out to be replaced company called ans asked me if i want a new unit because there was no problems with mine

garrtim :

what we need to know is what vin# XX XXXXXXXXXX into the controller that is on the car at this point and time

garrtim :

if the vin # XXXX not match then we have an issue

Customer :

we recorded vin number before we sent it so i would not get back used unit we sent our unit as a core for a new unit along with money then they called me and and asked if i was sure i wanted a new unit because there was nothing wrong with mine,

Customer :

car did start a few times for 5 ten sec with starting fliud this car has been sitting for a few months

garrtim :

all engine controllers need to have the correct vin # XXXXXXXXXX into them inorder for them to start and run - we either have a security issue or a pcm issue--

garrtim :

this is why I would like to see what vin # XX XXXXXXXXXX into the computer at this point

Customer :

car was bought new never been worked on by anyone but me

garrtim :

also -- have you visually checked the timing?

garrtim :

and just so I am clear -- we still have the original PCM in the car-correct?

Customer :

yes changed this belt 3 times yes car pcm

garrtim :

do you have access to a scan tool?

Customer :

just checked codes cmp is gone now and crank code is gone but i still do have 1684 code and done

garrtim :

Full Size Image

garrtim :

Full Size Image

garrtim :

P0320-NO CRANK REFERENCE SIGNAL AT PCM

When Monitored: Engine cranking.

Set Condition: No CKP signal is present during engine cranking, and at least 8 camshaft

position sensor signals have occurred.

garrtim :

POSSIBLE CAUSES

INTERMITTENT CKP SIGNAL

INTERMITTENT CMP SIGNAL

INTERMITTENT WIRING

INTERMITTENT CONDITION

8 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT SHORTED TO GROUND

8 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT OPEN

8 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT SHORTED TO VOLTAGE

CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED GROUND

CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT OPEN

CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO VOLTAGE

CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL SHORTED TO 8 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT

SENSOR GROUND CIRCUIT OPEN

PCM - 8 VOLT SUPPLY

PCM - CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL

CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR

TEST ACTION

garrtim :

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE C1 (2.0L/2.4L) - GRAY 40 WAY

CAV CIRCUIT FUNCTION
1 - -
2 - -
3 K17 18DB/TN IGNITION COIL NO. 2 DRIVER
4 - -
5 V32 20YL/RD SPEED CONTROL SUPPLY
6 A142 18DG/OR AUTOMATIC SHUT DOWN RELAY OUTPUT
7 K13 18YL/WT FUEL INJECTOR NO. 3 DRIVER
8 K20 18DG GENERATOR FIELD
9 - -
10 Z12 18BK/TN GROUND
11 K19 18BK/GY IGNITION COIL NO. 1 DRIVER
12 G6 20GY ENGINE OIL PRESSURE SWITCH SENSE
13 K11 18WT/DB FUEL INJECTOR NO. 1 DRIVER
14 - -
15 - -
16 K14 18LB/BR FUEL INJECTOR NO. 4 DRIVER
17 K12 18TN FUEL INJECTOR NO. 2 DRIVER
18 K79 20OR/RD OXYGEN SENSOR 1/1 CONTROL
19 - -
20 F12 20DB/WT FUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN-START)
21 - -
22 - -
23 K119 20LG/BK (MTX) CLUTCH UPSTOP SWITCH SIGNAL
24 - -
25 K42 20DB/LG KNOCK SENSOR SIGNAL
26 K2 20TN/BK ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURE SENSOR SIGNAL
27 K127 20BK/OR OXYGEN SENSOR GROUND
28 - -
29 - -
30 K41 20BK/DG OXYGEN SENSOR 1/1 SIGNAL
31 K90 20TN ENGINE STARTER MOTOR RELAY CONTROL
32 K24 20GY/BK CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
33 K44 20TN/YL CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
34 - -
35 K22 18OR/DB THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
36 K1 18DG/RD MAP SENSOR SIGNAL
37 - -
38 C20 20BR A/C SWITCH SENSE
39 - -
40 K35 20GY/YL EGR SOLENOID CONTROL

garrtim :

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE C2 (2.0L/2.4L) - GRAY 40 WAY

CAV CIRCUIT FUNCTION
41 V37 20RD/LG SPEED CONTROL SWITCH SIGNAL
42 - -
43 K4 20BK/LB SENSOR GROUND
44 K7 20OR 8V SUPPLY
45 K10 20DB/OR STEERING PRESSURE SWITCH SENSE
46 A14 18RD/WT FUSED B(+)
47 Z11 18BK/WT GROUND
48 K40 20BR/WT IDLE AIR CONTROL NO. 3 DRIVER
49 K60 20YL/BK IDLE AIR CONTROL NO. 2 DRIVER
50 Z12 18BK/TN GROUND
51 K141 20TN/WT OXYGEN SENSOR 1/2 SIGNAL
52 K21 20BK/RD INLET AIR TEMPERATURE SENSOR SIGNAL
53 - -
54 - -
55 C24 20YL/RD LOW SPEED RADIATOR FAN RELAY CONTROL
56 V36 20TN/RD (SPEED CONTROL) SPEED CONTROL VACUUM SOLENOID CONTROL
57 K39 20GY/RD IDLE AIR CONTROL NO. 1 DRIVER
58 K59 20VT/BK IDLE AIR CONTROL NO. 4 DRIVER
59 D25 20VT/YL PCI BUS
60 - -
61 K6 20VT/WT 5V SUPPLY
62 K29 20WT/PK BRAKE LAMP SWITCH SENSE
63 T10 20YL/DG (EATX) TORQUE MANAGEMENT REQUEST SENSE
64 C28 20DB/OR A/C COMPRESSOR CLUTCH RELAY CONTROL
65 D21 20PK SCI TRANSMIT
66 G7 20WT/OR VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR SIGNAL
67 K51 20DB/YL AUTOMATIC SHUT DOWN RELAY CONTROL
68 K52 20PK/BK EVAP PURGE SOLENOID CONTROL
69 C27 20DB/PK HIGH SPEED RADIATOR FAN RELAY CONTROL
70 K108 20WT/TN (RHD) EVAP PURGE SOLENOID SENSE
70 K108 20DB (LHD) EVAP PURGE SOLENOID SENSE
71 G9 20GY/BK RED BRAKE WARNING INDICATOR DRIVER
72 K107 20YL/BK (EXCEPT RHD EATX) LEAK DETECTION PUMP SWITCH SENSE
73 - -
74 K31 20BR FUEL PUMP RELAY CONTROL
75 D20 20LG SCI RECEIVE
76 T141 20YL/RD (EATX LHD BASE) PARK/NEUTRAL POSITION SWITCH SENSE (TRS T41)
76 T41 20BK/WT (EATX OTHER) PARK/NEUTRAL POSITION SWITCH SENSE (TRS T41)
76 T141 20 BK/WT (LHD MTX) CLUTCH INTERLOCK SWITCH SIGNAL
76 T141 20BR/WT (RHD MTX) CLUTCH INTERLOCK SWITCH SIGNAL
77 K106 20WT/DG LEAK DETECTION PUMP SOLENOID CONTROL
78 - -
79 - -
80 V35 20LG/RD (SPEED CONTROL) SPEED CONTROL VENT SOLENOID CONTROL

garrtim :

let me know if this helps or we need any other diagrams -- I would start by measuring the voltage out of the pcm at the pcm for the cam and crank sensors

Customer :

what does 1684 mean because thats the code i have since changing battery last year

garrtim :

CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR - BLACK 3 WAY

CAV CIRCUIT FUNCTION
1 F854 20GY/PK (1.6L) CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR 5V SUPPLY
1 K7 20OR (2.0L/2.4L) 8V SUPPLY
2 K44 20TN/YL (1.6L) CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
2 K4 20BK/LB (2.0L/2.4L) SENSOR GROUND
3 K944 20BR/GY (1.6L) CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR GROUND
3 K44 20TN/YL (2.0L/2.4L) CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL

Customer :

is it pin 44 and pin 41??

garrtim :

that just means battery disconnect -- not an issue--

garrtim :

CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR - BLACK 3 WAY

CAV CIRCUIT FUNCTION
1 K924 20BR/WT (1.6L) CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR GROUND
1 K7 20OR (2.0L/2.4L) 8V SUPPLY
2 K24 20GY/BK (1.6L) CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
2 K4 20BK/LB (2.0L/2.4L) SENSOR GROUND
3 K7 20OR (1.6L) CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR 5V SUPPLY
3 K24 20GY/BK (2.0L/2.4L) CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL

garrtim :

here is what it comes down to know-- we need to check the wiring from PCM to sensors, the connections at the PCM and the PCM itself

garrtim :

I hope this is enough info to get you going in the correct path

Customer :

i ask about the pins do to pep boys said 44 was 3.5 volts and that is why it ran when you unpluged the cam sensor when pluged in the car stopped now when i got car home i put old sensor on and code stopped but i got crank code and changed and that code left and wit a little the car would start for a monment so fuel was very low i put two gal. in and no more starting but still had power all over until start and test light went out

garrtim :

it needs to be 8 volts

Customer :

should i recheck the sensors with meter

garrtim :

start at sensors and check with key on what we have for voltage-- then go to the pcm AND SEE WHAT WE HAVE THERE

Customer :

the shop told me pin 44 was 3.5 and when i pluged in the sensor it died do to low power ,i didnt belive themthis is why i wanted to know if 44 was the cam sensor

garrtim :

correct-- lets check the volatges at the sensor on the 8volt supply wires-- then at the PCM itself for proper voltage--

garrtim :

if sensors are new -- this would likely eliminate the sensors

garrtim :

now we are left with wiring and the PCM

Customer :

you say to check pcm but i have know idle what pin to checkfor power

garrtim :

pin 44 out of the PCM connector 2-- this supplies 8 volt feed to both sensors

Customer :

sorry wife was typing . if i check all of this cant i still talk to you later or tomrowon my same dime or do i pay again

garrtim :

Full Size Image

garrtim :

just keep posting back to this question -- even if you accept now -- you can post back -- I will stay with you until we figure it out,thanks,Tim

Customer :

i will check the pin again but i told the computer company about this 3.5 volt on 44 and they had my check for new ciomputer but called and asked if i was sure i wanted a new one he thought it was not a good investment at this trime so he sent back it is his job to sell the units not check and charge a small fee and warranty the unit for 6 mt. and send back 450.00 dollars

garrtim :

i hear you -- but we need to forget about what they said and did or didn't do and check this ourselves so we knoe what we have

Customer :

one last question can i run a hot wire to the asd and see if it will start or can i blow pcm . also can key switch do this

garrtim :

I have a tech that does that all of the time and he has not melted anything yet,tim

garrtim :

and no on the key switch

Customer :

red light is not lit anymore has been on since i owned the car new,dealer told me it was for the alarm which we do not have so light was always on but i just noticed it is off

Customer :

hello??

garrtim :

yes i am here

garrtim :

if that round red light has been on since new -- that IS NOT NORMAL !

garrtim :

have you tested voltages

Customer :

not yet

Customer :

yes that light has always been on

Customer :

now its off

garrtim :

that is the security light-- this light comes on when the car does not recognize the security key-- it is an immobilizer

garrtim :

this is controlled by the engine controller

Customer :

did the salesman lie about alarm. and why know is it off what did it do. i was a gm machanic 25 years and service manager for 10 of the years now i have spinal canser and it is hard to bend over i hate to take to shop 2 places got me foe a little over 1000.00 im on disability please help

garrtim :

it has the basic system on it-- -- at this point we still need to test to move forward

Customer :

so i can do what i did to my caddy when my key reader went i pulled out the two wires in the yellow tube and mesured the resitor and soider in a resister and car has been running for years it was 500 for reader and labor plus keys will it work on chry.

garrtim :

I do not think that will work on this -- I think we have a bad PCM or bad 8 volt supply to the crank/cam sensors

Customer :

sir i was out at car and for the hell of it i unpluged the cam sensor and car started i stopped right away and got a code 1388 or 1688 i belive it was 1688 would this not mean the computer is good ,and what is that code. im working on pin 44 for the voltage now so it will be a couple of hours do to back problems larry thank you by the way when i had wife out side to kit key when i was checking asd plug 2 holes stayed hot and she said the red little lite was on the hole time but now its off it stayed on 24/7 key or not to many funny things happing

garrtim :

if we unplug cam and it started -- we either have cam timing off- cam sensor bad -- or wiring to the sensor bad--

garrtim :

starting when unplugged is a good sign-- pcm should be fine -- lets trace wiring back from sensor to pcm

Customer :

what r thoses codes?? have a new cam sensor could timeing belt could be off half a tooth would that make this problem??

garrtim :

that would do it

Customer :

if timeing was off my car wouldnt start??

garrtim :

it would have a long crank time -- but I still think we have a wiring concern -- 1388 is auto shutdown circuit

Customer :

i smell gas when i try to start car

garrtim :

every time we turn key -- it is dumping fuel

Customer :

i will work on this more later

garrtim :

that is ok--- take your time-- check our feed fromt the PCM and also check the wiring from the cam sensor back to the splice -- all of these sensor share the 8 volt supply-- from the pcm --I would trace from the cam sensor back to splice

Customer :

i checked pin 44 and i got 4.99 volts and pin 40 i got 2.59 the machanic told me it was bad he got3.50 volts is it a ground problem and now the little motor sign on dash blinks 10 times and the little red lite comes back on like it use to but the littke symbole didnt blink also working close to computer i hear a buzzing or humming low but i haer it so i turned of key and it stayed humming for10 seconds and stopprd so i turned key on and it came back is this normal do to it having a power supply inside its like a stero tuner humming

Customer :

hello

Customer :

did you write me back??

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