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Stonyman
Stonyman, Ase Certified Master
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 723
Experience:  Certified Ase Master, 23 years exp. Pa state and emissions lic. Specializing in Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep
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2005 PT Cruiser: that is not firing on cylinders 1&4..spark

Customer Question

I have a 2005 PT Cruiser that is not firing on cylinders 1&4. Fuel is okay. Just no spark. Replaced coil pack to no avail. Swaped out known good ASD relay and still no spark. Have 12v at center coil pack terminal during crank, no voltage on other pins of coil pack connector. Lost for an answer, need car for wife's cancer treatments - any known good fix to this problem?
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Chrysler
Expert:  Stonyman replied 4 years ago.
Hi. Do you have a test light so I can send you a few tests?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Not an operable one but can sure purchase one......do however have an outstanding MAC tools DVM.....
Expert:  Stonyman replied 4 years ago.

Ok. Here is an initial check with the pinout chart.

 

 

Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the Ignition Coil harness connector.

Using a 12-volt test light connected to 12-volts, probe the Ignition Coil Driver circuit(coil control).

Crank the engine for 5 second while observing the test light.

Does the test light blink/flicker?

 

1K17 18DB/TN (2.4L TURBO)COIL CONTROL NO. 2
2A142 18DG/OR (1.6L/2.4L TURBO)AUTOMATIC SHUT DOWN RELAY OUTPUT
2A142 16DG/OR (2.4L EXCEPT TURBO)AUTOMATIC SHUT DOWN RELAY OUTPUT
3K19 18BK/GY (1.6L)IGNITION COIL NO. 1 DRIVER
3K19 18BK/GY (2.4L EXCEPT TURBO)COIL CONTROL NO. 1
3K19 18BK/GY (2.4L TURBO)COIL CONTROL NO. 1

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Okay, unfortunately, have to go buy a new test light first thing in a.m. as mine is shot or is there a way to use a multimeter for the test?. How do I get back with you to continue?
Expert:  Stonyman replied 4 years ago.

To continue, just reply back to this thread. It's 11pm here so I'll get back to you throughout the day tomorrow.

They want a test light for the load it put's on the circuit to see it's ability (power) to light the light.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Great! Seems like I might be going after crank signal with this test, no? Anyway, how is the best way for me to get back to this thread, I certainly don't want to lose it as you appear to be well versed in what you're doing. I used to own a shop in the early 90's so I've got some semblence of sense and hopefully can walk through this with you pretty quick. Thanks so far..........Tom
Expert:  Stonyman replied 4 years ago.

Hey Tom. I'm giving this diag tree to you below. I was thinking about the crank or cam, but this may be wiring or pcm. Here's the diag tree. Let me know what you need like diagrams or pin outs and I'll get them to you tomorrow. This may be a little overkill, but I'm giving it all to you. Because you're a tech.

 

 

*ENGINE CRANKS DOES NOT START - 2.0L/2.4L

POSSIBLE CAUSES

NO START PRE-TEST

POWERTRAIN FUSES OPEN

FUEL PRESSURE OUT OF SPECS

RESTRICTED FUEL SUPPLY LINE

FUEL PUMP INLET STRAINER PLUGGED

FUEL PUMP MODULE

FUEL PUMP RELAY FUSED B+ CIRCUIT

FUEL PUMP RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT OPEN

FUEL PUMP RELAY

FUEL PUMP GROUND CIRCUIT OPEN/HIGH RESISTANCE

FUEL PUMP MODULE

5 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT

CKP SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT OPEN

CKP SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED GROUND

CKP SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO VOLTAGE

CKP SENSOR SIGNAL SHORTED TO 5 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT

SENSOR GROUND CIRCUIT OPEN

ASD RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT

CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR

IGNITION COIL

IGNITION COIL DRIVER CIRCUIT OPEN

IGNITION COIL DRIVER CIRCUIT SHORTED TO GROUND

PCM - COIL

PCM - CKP SENSOR SIGNAL

OTHER POSSIBLE CAUSES FOR NO START

 

 

1 Note: The following list of items must be checked before continuing with

any no start tests.

The battery must be fully charged and in good condition. A low charged battery may

produce invalid test results. If the battery is low, charge the battery and then attempt

to start the vehicle by cranking the engine for 15 seconds, 3 consecutive times.

This will allow any DTC's to set that may have been erased due to a dead battery.

Ensure the Powers and Ground to the PCM are ok.

Make sure the PCM communicates with the DRBIIIt and that there are no DTC's

stored in the PCM memory. If the PCM reports a No Response condition, refer to the

Communication category for the proper tests.

Read the PCM DTC's with the DRBIIIt. If any DTC's are present, they must be

repaired before continuing with any other No Start diagnostic tests. Refer to the

SympXXXXX XXXXXst for the related P-code that is reported by the PCM.

Ensure that the PCI bus is functional. Attempt to communicate with the Instrument

Cluster and SKIM, If you are unable to establish communicate refer to the

Communication category for the proper symptoms.

The Sentry Key Immobilizer System must be operating properly. Check for proper

communication with the DRBIIIt and check for DTC's that may be stored in the

Sentry Key Immobilizer Module (SKIM). repair the DTC(s) before continuing.

If no DTC's are found, using the DRBIIIt select Clear PCM (Batt Disconnect).

Crank the engine several times. Using the DRBIIIt, read DTC's. If a DTC is present

perform the DTC diagnostics before continuing.

Were any problems found?

All

Yes ! Repair as necessary.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

No ! Go To 2

2 Check for any open fuses in the PDC or Fuse Block that may be related to the No

Start condition.

Are any of the fuses open?

All

Yes ! Using the wiring diagram/schematic as a guide, inspect the

wiring and connectors, repair as necessary. Replace the Fuse.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

No ! Go To 3

3 Turn the ignition on.

With the DRBIIIt, actuate the ASD Fuel System test.

Note: It may be necessary to use a mechanics stethoscope in the next step.

Listen for fuel pump operation at the fuel tank.

Does the Fuel Pump operate?

All

Yes ! Go To 4

No ! Go To 24

Caution: Stop All Actuations.

 

 

4 NOTE: Repeat the following test at each Ignition wire. If spark is not

present or is weak on only one or two Ignition wires, the problem may be

the Ignition wire. Inspect all Ignition wires for proper operation.

Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the #1 Ignition wire.

Connect a spark plug tester to the end of the Ignition wire.

While cranking the engine, observe the spark tester.

Is spark present?

All

Yes ! Go To 5

No ! Go To 9

5 Turn the ignition off.

WARNING: The fuel system is under a constant pressure even with the

engine off. Before testing or servicing any fuel system hose, fitting or line,

the fuel system pressure must be released.

Install a fuel pressure gauge.

Turn the ignition on.

With the DRBIIIt, actuate the ASD Fuel System test and observe the fuel pressure

gauge.

NOTE: Fuel pressure specification is 400 kPa +/- 34 kPa (58 psi +/- 5 psi).

Choose a conclusion that best matches your fuel pressure reading.

All

Below Specification

Go To 6

Within Specification

Go To 8

Above Specification

Replace the fuel filter/fuel pressure regulator.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

Caution: Stop All Actuations.

6 Turn the ignition off.

WARNING: The fuel system is under a constant pressure even with the

engine off. Before testing or servicing any fuel system hose, fitting or line,

the fuel system pressure must be released.

Raise vehicle on hoist, and disconnect the fuel pressure line at the fuel pump module.

Install special 5/16 fuel line adapter tool #6539 between the disconnected fuel line

and the fuel pump module.

Attach a fuel pressure test gauge to the T fitting on the tool #6539

Turn the ignition on.

With the DRBIIIt, actuate the ASD Fuel System test and observe the fuel pressure

gauge.

NOTE: Fuel pressure specification is 400 KPa +/- 34 KPa (58 psi +/- 5 psi).

Is the fuel pressure within specification now?

All

Yes ! Repair/replace fuel supply line as necessary.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

No ! Go To 7

Caution: Stop All Actuations.

 

 

7 Turn the ignition off.

WARNING: The fuel system is under a constant pressure even with the

engine off. Before testing or servicing any fuel system hose,fitting or line,

the fuel system pressure must be released.

Remove the Fuel Pump Module and inspect the Fuel Inlet Strainer.

Is the Fuel Inlet Strainer plugged?

All

Yes ! Replace the Fuel Pump Inlet Strainer.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

No ! Replace the Fuel Pump Module.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

8 The following items need to be checked as a possible cause for a no start condition.

Refer to any Technical Service Bulletins that may apply to the symptom.

The spark plugs must be free from fuel, oil, coolant and/or any foreign material or

deposits.

The fuel must be free from contamination.

The exhaust may be free from restrictions.

The engine compression must be within specifications.

The engine valve timing must be within specifications.

The engine must be free from vacuum leaks.

Were any of the above conditions found?

All

Yes ! Repair as necessary.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

No ! Test Complete.

9 Turn the ignition on.

With the DRBIIIt in Sensors, select the RPM parameter.

While cranking the engine monitor the RPM parameter.

Does the DRBIIIt display a RPM reading greater than 50 RPM and steady?

All

Yes ! Go To 10

No ! Go To 15

10 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the Ignition Coil harness connector.

Turn the ignition on.

With the DRBIIIt, actuate the ASD Relay.

Using a 12-volt test light connected to ground, probe the ASD Relay Output circuit in

the Ignition Coil harness connector.

Does the test light illuminate brightly?

All

Yes ! Go To 11

No ! Repair the ASD Relay Output circuit.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

11 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the Ignition Coil harness connector.

Using a 12-volt test light connected to 12-volts, probe the Ignition Coil Driver circuit.

Crank the engine for 5 second while observing the test light.

Does the test light blink/flicker?

All

Yes ! Replace the Ignition Coil.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

No ! Go To 12

 

 

12 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the Ignition Coil harness connector.

Disconnect the PCM harness connector.

Measure the resistance of the Ignition Coil driver circuit between the Ignition Coil

harness connector and the PCM harness connector.

Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?

All

Yes ! Go To 13

No ! Repair the Ignition Coil driver circuit for an open.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

13 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the Ignition Coil harness connector.

Disconnect the PCM harness connector.

Measure the resistance between ground and the Ignition Coil driver circuit in the

Ignition Coil harness connector.

Is the resistance below 100k ohms?

All

Yes ! Repair the Ignition Coil driver circuit for a short to ground.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

No ! Go To 14

14 If there are no possible causes remaining, view repair. All

Repair

Replace and program the Powertrain Control Module in accordance

with the Service Information.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

15 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the CKP Sensor harness connector.

Turn the ignition on.

Measure the voltage of the 5 Volt Supply circuit in the CKP Sensor harness connector.

Is the voltage between 4.8 and 5.2 volts?

All

Yes ! Go To 16

No ! Repair the 5 Volt Supply circuit.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

16 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the CKP Sensor harness connector.

Turn the ignition on.

Measure the voltage of the CKP Sensor Signal circuit in the CKP Sensor harness

connector.

Is the voltage between 4.5 and 5.0 volts?

All

Yes ! Go To 17

No ! Go To 19

17 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the CKP Sensor harness connector.

Measure the resistance between ground and the Sensor Ground circuit at the CKP

Sensor harness connector.

Is the resistance below 100 ohms?

All

Yes ! Go To 18

No ! Repair the Sensor Ground circuit for an open.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

 

 

 

18 NOTE: Inspect the slots on the crank, tone wheel, for damage. If a problem

is found repair as necessary.

If there are no possible causes remaining, view repair.

All

Repair

Replace the Crankshaft Position Sensor.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

19 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the CKP Sensor harness connector.

Disconnect the PCM harness connectors.

Measure the resistance of the CKP Sensor Signal circuit from the CKP Sensor

harness connector to the PCM harness connector.

Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?

All

Yes ! Go To 20

No ! Repair the CKP Sensor Signal circuit for an open.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

20 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the CKP Sensor harness connector.

Measure the resistance between ground and the CKP Sensor Signal circuit at the

CKP Sensor harness connector.

Is the resistance below 100 ohms?

All

Yes ! Repair the CKP Sensor Signal circuit for a short to ground.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

No ! Go To 21

21 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the CKP Sensor harness connector.

Turn the ignition on.

Measure the voltage of the CKP Sensor Signal circuit in the CKP Sensor harness

connector.

Is the voltage above 4.7 volts?

All

Yes ! Repair the CKP Sensor Signal circuit for a short to battery

voltage.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

No ! Go To 22

22 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the CKP Sensor harness connector.

Disconnect the PCM harness connector(s).

Measure the resistance between the CKP Sensor Signal circuit and the 5 Volt Supply

circuit in the CKP Sensor harness connector.

Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?

All

Yes ! Repair the CKP Sensor Signal circuit shorted to the 5 Volt Supply

circuit.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

No ! Go To 23

 

 

23 If there are no possible causes remaining, view repair. All

Repair

Replace and program the Powertrain Control Module in accordance

with the Service Information.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

24 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the fuel pump module harness connector.

Turn the ignition on.

With the DRBIIIt, actuate the ASD Fuel System test.

Using a 12 volt test light connected to ground, probe the Fuel Pump Relay Output

circuit at the Fuel Pump Module harness connector.

Does the test light illuminate brightly?

All

Yes ! Go To 25

No ! Go To 27

Caution: Stop All Actuations.

25 Turn the ignition off.

Disconnect the Fuel Pump Module harness connector.

Note: Check connectors - It is critical that the connector is free from any

signs of corrosion or deformities - Clean/repair as necessary.

Using a test light connected to battery voltage, probe the Fuel Pump ground circuit

at the Fuel Pump Module harness connector.

Does the test light illuminate brightly?

All

Yes ! Go To 26

No ! Repair the open/high resistance in the fuel pump ground circuit.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

26 If there are no possible causes remaining, view repair. All

Repair

Replace the Fuel Pump Module.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

27 Turn the ignition off.

Remove the Fuel Pump Relay from the PDC.

With a 12 volt test light connected to ground, probe the Fuel Pump Relay Fused B+

circuit at the PDC.

Does the test light illuminate?

All

Yes ! Go To 28

No ! Repair the Fuel Pump Relay Fused B+ circuit. Check for open fuse

in the PDC.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

 

 

28 Turn the ignition off.

Remove the Fuel Pump Relay from the PDC.

Disconnect the Fuel Pump Module harness connector.

NOTE: Check connectors - It is critical that the connector is free from any

signs of corrosion or deformities

Measure the resistance of the Fuel Pump Relay Output circuit from the relay

connector to the fuel pump module connector.

Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?

All

Yes ! Replace the Fuel Pump Relay.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC.

No ! Repair the open fuel pump relay output circuit.

Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 - NGC

Stonyman, Ase Certified Master
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 723
Experience: Certified Ase Master, 23 years exp. Pa state and emissions lic. Specializing in Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep
Stonyman and 7 other Chrysler Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Sorry it took so long to get back with you - I had to go out of town on an emergency. I think you've provided me with more than ample information to track this rascal down. The troubleshooting tree for a no start issue such as this certainly has it's complexities - but then again I am dealing with a Chrysler and not a Ford which I always found the easiest to trouble shoot when it came to no starts. Thanks so much for your assistance. When I closed my shop in 2003 I sold nearly all my diagnostic equipment and professional Chiltons manuals and have to admit this is the first time since that I've been hit with something that I couldn't rationalize my way out of. Again thanks a lot and have a great holiday.
Expert:  Stonyman replied 4 years ago.

Thank you. We are snowed in here in Pa! What a wonderful thing. My schedule went from crazy to nothing.

Did you figure it out or are you taking it in?

Merry Christmas.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Just started working on it again when your message came through on my blackberry. I am located in Mountain time zone so I'm a little behind you. Saw the snow this morning - beautiful! Hope you and yours have a great Christmas. Thanks again Stony...... :-)
Expert:  Stonyman replied 4 years ago.
Ok. If you need anything or have questions, just reply back to this thread.

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