2002 PT Cruiser. No start/no spark
Replaced crank sensor,cam sensor, timing belt. Checked all fuses,connections and relays. Still no spark??
Do you have fuel pressure at the fuel rail.........need to see about 50 psi?
Yes , I have 60 psi pressure. I thought of that also ,when it quit. I have also checked for codes and found none?
I am at witts end with it, as it has always run very good. When i pulled the timing covers the belt was in good shape and on time, but I replaced it anyway.
I then thought ,well it has to be the crank sensor and or the cam sensor, so I replaced tham. Still no spark. There is power at the relays but they don't fire off to the coil? Could it be the PCM module?? Lots of money for that to find out its not it.
Does your check engine light come on when the key is turned on?
The check engine light comes on when I turn on the key and goes off while I crank?
I did try some more items today. I replaced the coil pack, still nothing. I tried a PCM from an automatic trans PT Cruiser to see if maybe it would at least start?? Nothing.
I thought about the securty system and its consequenses. It still locks the door and it still goes off if the door is manually unlocked. the horn starts to blow. I guess I feel that the security system is okay.
I did another go around with the connectors and also paid close attention to see if any of the wires were frade or broken. I cannot find anything wrong??
Like I said. I just don't have another clue as to where to go with this???
I got laid off of work on April so I really cannot afford another car, but it is statrting to look like there is no answer to fix this.
Do you have a volt meter......and are comfortable using it?
Yes, no problem using a volt meter. Where should I probe?
I was thinking maybe there is something wrong in the ignition switch itself??
Have you ever seen issues that this could be a problem? Everything seems to go on when I turn the key. All the lights in the cluster go, the accessories work.
Ok, lets find the map sensor or the tps.......either one. Test the voltage on all 3 wires with the key on and let me know what you get.....and which sensor you chose.
Also, do the same for the cam and crank sensors and let me know the results.
Here are the voltages with the key on
Okay the TPS:
5.0 4.56 0.02
the Cam sensor;
Y B Or
5.0 0.02 8.83
the Crank sensor:
Or B Grey
5.0 0.02 8.83
Hmmm. The TPS is only supposed to have one wire with voltage (5v) on it when the connector is unplugged.
Are you sure you have one wire with 5 volts and another wire with 4.5...........with the connector unplugged?
Yes I had voltage at 2 points . Checked it twice. Unplugged
What does this mean?
Alright, lets try something. Make up a paper clip or something and insert it into the back of the connector on the wire that has 4.5 volts. Make sure you have a good connection and then plug the sensor in and tell me if the voltage changes.
Okay I probed the voltage with it unplugged and it was around 4.6 volts and then I plugged it in and it went down to .79 volts.
Are you sure that a manual transmission version is not suppose to have any voltage there?? I see in the shop manual where the middle pin usually goes to a transmission module and then to the PCM. Since this is a manual ,it goes directly to the PCM. I unplugged the PCM and then I got 0.0 volts at the TPS unplugged.as you would expect.
Would you suspect the 'sims' to be acting up?? I tried both keys, no difference.
The system works properly. it remote locks and unlocks and the alarm goes off if you lock via the FOB and then unlock via the key. It seems normal the little red light goes on as usual.
I am stumped
Alright, the PCM must be using that 4.5 as a diagnostic voltage, so if you have .79 with it plugged in, everything is ok on that circuit.
Do the same paper clip trick on the 5 volt wire at the crank sensor. If you are able to rotate the engine by hand you should see that 5 volts drop to zero volts and then back to 5 volts etc. You can also accomplish this by removing the sensor and passing a piece of metal underneath it and watch the voltage change.
This will tell us if the crank sensor is working........if it is, we will need to check this at the PCM to make sure the PCM is getting this signal.
The security system on the vehicle will either disable the starter from working or disable the injectors.....but not the ignition system.......you should still have spark.
All seems fine with the crank sensor. I also checked the cam sensor and the voltage varies as the engine is turned..
I am thinking that I need to order another PCM?? What do you think? Have we exhasted all the other options?
Yes, it appears we are heading down that road.
One more thing, just make sure you are getting 12 volts to the coil pack when it is cranking.
There is no voltage at the coil, cranking or not cranking? I pulled the relay that is the shutdown relay for the spark and fuel. but it has 12 volts coming into it but it does not get the signal to send it to the coil?? dk green with orange wire on the coil . I tried jumping the 12 volts , red with white in the relay socket to the dk green with orange. still no start??
Are you sure that it could not be the "sims" system?
I had a couple guys that I worked with at Ford on the Ford PCM, basically knowlegebale electronic guys from the Ford PCM modules, and they too, cannot understand what is preventing the solenoid from receiving a signal?? All the fuses check good.
It is either in the Sims or the PCM itself??
Is there a red dot illuminated in the cluster?
The SKIM sends messages to the instrument cluster, to turn the LED on for about three seconds when the ignition switch is turned to the ON position as a bulb test. After completion of the bulb test, the SKIM sends PCI bus messages to keep the LED off for a duration of about one second. Then the SKIM sends messages to the instrument cluster circuitry to turn the LED on or off based upon the results of the SKIS self-tests. If the VTSS indicator LED comes on and stays on after the bulb test, it indicates that the SKIM has detected a system malfunction and/or that the SKIS has become inoperative. If the SKIM detects an invalid key when the ignition switch is turned to the ON position, it sends messages to the instrument cluster to flash the VTSS indicator LED.
Yes the red light comes on.
I guess I am going to go with another PCM?? It has to be what is keeping the shutdown relay from coming on
Ok, let me know how you make out.
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The new PCM didn't work either?? I finally gave up and had the car towed to the dealer last night. Lets see what they find