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Glenn
Glenn, Instructor
Category: Chrysler
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Experience:  28 years experience, Interprovincially Licenced Motor Vehicle Mechanic and Trainer
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2000 Chrysler Town & Country: My hazard lights and turn signals

Customer Question

I have a 2000 Chrysler Town & Country. My hazard lights and turn signals do not work. Both stopped working at the same time. I've checked the hazard fuse under the hood and the fuses inside, plus tried from a salvage yard another yellow flasher module. At the flasher module's receptacle, there is constant current at the bottom right recess, but no current shows up at any of the other 8 of 9 recesses, when turn signals or hazard button is pushed. I did hear a loud creeking vinyl dash board type sounds for a few minutes, around the time I realized my hazards and turn signals did not work. Help please!
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Chrysler
Expert:  BigBob replied 5 years ago.
GreetingsCustomer

1.Check for power at the junction box under the dash at terminals 1 and 6 with the combination flasher removed.
2. Check with a powered test lamp if test lamp lights pin 7 when signaling left and pin 8 when signaling to the right.
3. If the test results are correct, replace the Combination Flasher/DRL (Daytime Running Lights) module.

I will post some pictures for you as soon as the site will let me upload.

Good luck,
Bob
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Thanks for responding. I had mentioned that I had tested for current (and I did use a test lamp) and there was constant current at the bottom right terminal only, when the vehicle is running, but never any current at any of the other terminals, under any condition such as either turn signal or flasher being on. So the test you suggested, I had already tried (and I just tried it again, using again a tiny screw driver and the tester w/lamp). What further tests do you suggest? (Oh and by the way, all fuses checked out OK too, under the hood and inside under the dash.) What next?
Expert:  BigBob replied 5 years ago.
Hello again,

We will go a step at a time to see what we can figure out.
Is this the area you are testing?


graphic

You do have daytime running lamps correct?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Yes this is the area. And yes I have daytime running lamps. (Terminal #6 has constant current when vehicle is running).
Expert:  BigBob replied 5 years ago.
Hello again,

graphic

1.Gain access to the multifunction switch connector. Locate the Light Blue/Yellow wire and ground it. This should activate the right side turn signals. Locate the Light Blue/White wire and ground it. This should activate the left side turn signals. If both sides do work, the problem is in the multifunction switch. Verify the Black wire in the same connector is grounded at all times. If so, replace the multifunction switch.

Let me know how it test, if we have to we will look further.

Thank You,
Bob
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Hello again. I verified that the black wire is a good ground and was able to jumper a wire between the black wire terminal and the high beam wire (it turn on the high beam).

Are you sure there should be current at the Light Blue/White wire or Light Blue/Yellow wire. Jumpering a wire between the black ground wire and –the Light Blue/White wire, or the Light Blue/Yellow wire, never had a turn signal turning on. What next?

Doesn't the power come in on perhaps the red wire, then run through the multi-function switch to the Light Blue/White wire or the Light Blue/Yellow wire, if the turn signal wand is pushed? In which case wouldn't I need to jumper a wire between the red wire(if I'm correct) and the Light Blue/White wire or the Light Blue/Yellow wire, to have a turn signal turn on? I didn't want to short anything out, so I didn't test this idea. Your thoughts please. Thanks so far......
Expert:  BigBob replied 5 years ago.
graphic
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
No current is found on wires #3 or #4 (Light Blue/White or Light blue/Yellow wires). I've used a meter, plus I jumpered both those wires to #8 ground, but nothing, no current detected or turn signals come on. I tried this with the connector connected and disconnected.

Like I said before, when jumpering a wire between #12 wire and #8 ground, the high beams come on.

Should current be present on wire's #3 and #4 (Light Blue/White or Light blue/Yellow wires), when connector is disconnected?

What next?

Expert:  BigBob replied 5 years ago.
Hello again,

Here is some reading on how the system works.

ELECTRONIC DAYTIME RUNNING LIGHT (DRL)
The Combination Flasher/DRL is a module providing turn signal, hazard warning, and daytime running light functions (for Canadian vehicles), and has been designed with internal relays to take advantage of low current switching requirements in the vehicle. It is plugged into the junction block at positions three and four, where all wiring associated with its operation is terminated. The junction block is adjacent to and left of the steering column of the vehicle.

On vehicles built for use in the United States, only position four is used. Vehicles built for use in Canada utilize both positions three and four.

To gain access to the device, remove the lower steering column cover and knee blocker.

The combination-flasher/DRL may be operated in its hazard warning mode either with or without the ignition circuit being active. However, in order to operate in the turn signal mode or the DRL mode, the ignition circuit must be completed to the module.

While the combination-flasher portion is idle, there is no current drawn through the module. The device does not become active in the turn signal or hazard warning modes until a signal ground circuit is supplied to either of the turn signal inputs or the hazard warning input. With the ignition OFF, there is no current drawn through the module.

While the ignition is ON, the front turn signal filaments are illuminated steadily thus providing the DRL function. The DRL function may be inhibited by applying a signal ground input from either the park brake circuit or the headlamp relay activation circuit.

Bob
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Seems like the conditions that I am describing to you and my questions pertaining to them are beyond you knowledge base, do you agree?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Seems like the conditions that I am describing to you and my questions pertaining to them are beyond your knowledge base, do you agree? In other words, the conditions of my vehicle's problem, stumps you too, correct?
Expert:  BigBob replied 5 years ago.
This may be one of those times where I can;t help any further without having the vehicle in front of me. I guess we gave it the old college try. I will opt out and let another Chrysler expert try and help you.

Good luck
Expert:  Glenn replied 5 years ago.

Hello,

 

THIS IS A DIFFERENT EXPERT.

 

You said " I had tested for current (and I did use a test lamp) and there was constant current at the bottom right terminal only, when the vehicle is running, but never any current at any of the other terminals"

 

Based on this answer to the other expert's questions, you have just found your problem. As he told you earlier, THERE NEEDS TO BE TWO WIRES live in the connector feeding the combination flasher/DRL Module.

 

You referred to the BOTTOM RIGHT terminal as being live. Good. That's the feed from the A22 circuit. There also needs to be a feed on the L9 circuit at PIN 1. This enters the junction block on pin 27, connector 2.

 

Click HERE to download this wiring diagram. The flasher module will not work without this feed to pin 1 of the combination flasher/drl module. Click HERE to download a pinout for this module.

 

You also said " Doesn't the power come in on perhaps the red wire, then run through the multi-function switch to the Light Blue/White wire or the Light Blue/Yellow wire, if the turn signal wand is pushed? In which case wouldn't I need to jumper a wire between the red wire(if I'm correct) and the Light Blue/White wire or the Light Blue/Yellow wire, to have a turn signal turn on? I didn't want to short anything out, so I didn't test this idea.

 

This would be a good fast way to burn up your multifunction switch. The multifunction switch does not have current going through it for the lights on this model. It is simply a voltage signal circuit that allows the module to determine what lights to turn on. A small voltage is sent from the module to the switch and the switch pulls that voltage to ground on each terminal depending which contact is closed in it.

 

Please recheck and locate the cause for no power to pin 1. Please let me know if you require further assistance.

 

 

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Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Hello, the multi function switch picture you provided is not wired like my 2000 Chrysler Town & Country, for instance No. 3 and No. 4 on my multi function switch are wipers. Nonetheless, I believe I should be able to discover the turn signal wires, by jumpering between the different wires and a "hot" wire; so when I find a turn signal wire, if the combination flasher module works, a turn signal should turn on. If I remove the module, in case it doesn't work, current should at least show up at no. 7 or no. 8 terminals of the junction box, when jumpering between a turn signal wire and a "hot" wire. Correct?

Also, in case this is significant, you asked me to check for current at #1 and #6 of the junction box. –I find there is no current at #1 and constant current at #6, when the vehicle is running.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Hello, thanks for responding.

As you reflected, –in the junction box, I find no current at #1 when the vehicle is running, but per your note, there needs to be current at #1. So, if I understand the diagram you provided, #1's feed enters the junction block on pin 27, connector 2, coming from the Power Distribution Center fuse #14.

What should I be looking for then and checking? Another fuse not in the fuses by the junction box or under the hood in the "Fuse and Relay Center"? If so, where is that? I've checked all the fuses pertaining to my problem near the junction box and in the Fuse and Relay Center (someone else also checked, too).

What are the causes you imagine, for no power being at Pin 1?

Also the multi function switch picture, that Bob provided, is not wired like my 2000 Chrysler Town & Country, for instance No. 3 and No. 4 on my multi function switch are for the wipers. I'm not sure now how to test the multi function switch. I thought I could jumper from it's "hot" wire to possibly one of its two turn signals wires Bob had mentioned, which would be bypassing then, the multi function switch, but after reading your post, I'm thinking that that is a way to damage the switch, –not test it.
Expert:  Glenn replied 5 years ago.

Hello.

 

I have not provided a picture of the multifunction switch.  I provided a picture of the turnsignal/drl relay.

 

You said " you asked me to check for current at #1 and #6 of the junction box. -I find there is no current at #1 and constant current at #6, when the vehicle is running. "

 

AGAIN...  YOU MUST HAVE A FEED AT #1 .... STOP AND FIND OUT WHY THERE IS NO POWER THERE.   YOU HAVE FOUND YOUR PROBLEM.   Get with it, ok... 2 EXPERTS HAVE TOLD YOU THIS.... WHAT FURTHER INFO DO YOU REQUIRE?  If you are not going to follow our instructions how do you expect to fix this problem?

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
What feeds #1? What is the component(s) that may have failed, that is in line with feeding power to #1? To tell me only that there should be power at #1, and that that is my problem, is a start, but what would you be looking at and checking for next?

Not the multi function switch,....so what else, what next?

Bob was very helpful, but I believe he didn't realize the significance of no power being at #1, like you have.
Expert:  Glenn replied 5 years ago.

God help me man, you are a hard one to help....

 

Ok, did you open the diagrams I sent you ?

 

You need to check to see if power is getting to the connection for the fuse box. If not , trace it back. If power is getting to the fusebox, there is a problem in the fuse box. This is a common problem with Chrysler products. I have replaced MANY MANY fuseboxes.

 

Do you need help interpreting the wiring diagram? Let me know and I'll try to help.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
THERE IS POWER at the fuse for the "hazards" in the "Fuse and Relay Center" under the hood. I'm not sure if that's the "Power Distribution Center" in the diagram you sent me. And yes I downloaded both diagrams you sent me and used both in replying to you.

I believe I'm reading the diagram correctly, so should be looking for the "Power Distribution Center" and fuse #14, to test if there's power there. –If the "Power Distribution Center" is not the "Fuse and Relay Center" under the hood, where is it?

F.Y.I. as you no doubt know, there is another fuse panel inside this vehicle adjacent to the junction box, but there is not a fuse labeled anything to do with "hazards" or "turn signals."

And I too, hope "God help(s)" you solve this problem, which is "hard one" for sure.

Thanks for sticking with it....!
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I received an email from Kim Cabot, Customer Service Manager, for JustAnswer, saying there was some "hardware technical difficulties" "that impacted accessibility of the site" and that there "may have (been) trouble viewing (my) question or receiving a prompt answer," SO I'll ask my recent follow up question again. And yes Glen, I downloaded both diagrams you sent me and used both in replying.

Glen, in the diagram you provided, is the "power distribution center", the same as the "Fuse and Relay Center", under the hood of this vehicle?

If it is, there is power at that fuse for the "hazards" (in the "Fuse and Relay Center"). There is another fuse panel adjacent to the junction box near the flasher module, but no fuse is labeled anything to do with "hazards" or "turn signals," –just the same, I've checked all the fuses, and they all appear good.

I believe I need to trace the wiring of the L9 circuit from PIN 1, which enters the junction block on pin 27, connector 2, back to fuse #14, in the "power distribution center", looking for breaks. If I'm reading the diagram correctly, there doesn't appear to be any other components in line with that power feed. Correct?

So if you can clarify where the "power distribution center" is, I believe I then need to trace a wire from there to pin#1. Correct? If so, any tips on tracing that wire, maybe like it's color code? Do I have to loosen or remove anything to trace this wire?

Thanks for sticking with this,... it's a challenge for sure!

mat gates

Expert:  Glenn replied 5 years ago.

Hello again.

 

Sorry for the delay in my reply. I tried several times to reply when I was online yesterday but site problems prevented my getting back to you.

 

I sent you an image of the JUNCTION BLOCK earlier. Click HERE to view it again. Please note the location of C2 in the top right corner of the schematic. You need to go to this connection and see if power is present on the black/white wire that comes into cavity 27 of this connector.

 

If power IS NOT present there, then there is a problem in the wiring from the power distribution centre (PDC) , the connection at the PDC, or the PDC itself. Yes, this circuit is fed by the underhood "Power Distribution Center" and its fuse #14.

 

Let me know how you make out, thanks.

Expert:  Glenn replied 5 years ago.

ooopps...

 

My previous mesage said:

I sent you an image of the JUNCTION BLOCK earlier. Click HERE to view it again. Please note the location of C2 in the top right corner of the schematic.

 

I sent you the wrong link in that message. That was the schematic. I meant to send you this one. Click HERE

 

So, to clarify... I want you to gently insert a small pin into the back of the connection at pin 27 on C2 at the underdash JUNCTION BLOCK to allow you to connect a testlight to see of the feed from the UNDERHOOD FUSE AND RELAY CENTRE (called a PDC) Fuse 14 is getting to this point. If you're testing it with a voltmeter, make sure the flasher/drl relay is installed when you are doing this.

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Thanks for toughing this one out.

Just for your information, under my hood, the large box with a removal cover, labeled "Fuse and Relay Center", is called in the owner's manual, the "Power Distribution Center".

Now I need to know, because it's not mentioned in my owner's manual or anywhere in the Power Distribution Center, what fuse is #14? The fuse labeled "hazards"? I don't see where these fuses are numbered, and no fuses are labeled turn signals though I believe they are on the same circuit feed. –I just want to be absolutely certain about this.

Also, to trace, inspect and test the wire along its way, from the "Power Distribution Center/Fuse and Relay Center" under my hood, to the junction box, inside my vehicle, appears to mean I need to remove further parts & equipment. Do you have any thoughts and experience about this?

mat g.

Expert:  Glenn replied 5 years ago.

Click HERE to download the image of the PDC.

 

Your best plan of attack is to CHECK FUSE 14 and then follow my last post. Have you checked to see if power is reaching pin 27 at connector C2 ON THE UNDERDASH JUNCTION BLOCK (where the relay is located)? If there is a problem in the harness there will be no power there and we'll have to start backtracking. If there is power there, there is a problem in the JUNCTION BLOCK and there is no need to start taking things apart under the hood.

 

Click HERE

 

I want you to gently insert a small pin into the back of the connection at pin 27 on C2 at the underdash JUNCTION BLOCK to allow you to connect a testlight to see of the feed from the UNDERHOOD FUSE AND RELAY CENTRE (called a PDC) Fuse 14 is getting to this point. If you're testing it with a voltmeter, make sure the flasher/drl relay is installed when you are doing this.

 

Let me know if you have further questions on this.

Expert:  Glenn replied 5 years ago.

If you have already read my last message go back and read it again... I have edited the first few lines of that message. Thanks.

 

Let me know how you make out.

Expert:  Glenn replied 5 years ago.

Hello.

 

I am curious to hear how you have made out with testing for the cause of no feed to pin one of the relay.

 

If you feel that my assistance has helped you pinpoint the cause of the problem it would be appropriate for you to press the accept button. Even though you have made a deposit I don't get compensated for my time until you do.

 

Please let me know if you require further assistance.

 

Thanks for using JustAnswer.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Hi, sincerely XXXXX XXXXX all your help! You & I, reduced the problem down to probably being something to do with the wire or its connections from the"Fuse and Relay Center/Power Distribution Center" under my hood, to the interior "junction block" under my dash.

I figured, I needed to use a mirror to look up into the dash, behind the junction block, –but that proved impossible.

Finally I had the dealership fix it and DUH, from the "Fuse and Relay Center/Power Distribution Center" under my hood, the wire going to the vehicle's interior, which ran under the battery, –battery acid seems to have shorted out the "turn signal/hazard" wire. The dealership had to remove the battery and loosen the "Fuse and Relay Center/Power Distribution Center", to get to that bad wire.

Case solved.

I appreciate your perseverance and all your help, sincerely!!!!

Mat

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