DOuble check and make sure that you did not plug he cam sensor plug into the crank sensor and visversa. The plugs are the same, and if you did swap them you will not have spark.
ok, ill check on that. is there a way to tell which one is which
Let me look up the wire colors for you, be right back.
i just checked the sensors, the cam sensor is a 3 pin plug and the crank sensor is 2 pin plug
Both plugs will have the same color wires but one wire, the cam sensor will have a brown with a white strip, and the crank sensor has a blue with a white strip, the other two wires are red and a pink with a black strip.
the crank sensor on the 1998 is only 2 wires
I am sorry i looked up the 96, let em double check the 98 color codes
ok, like i said, im useing the wireing harness and sensors from the 98
What happened to the original engine that made you replace it?
snapped a rod and sent it through the block
Let me do some checking to see if the crank and cam sensors are the same leangth for the two years you are dealing with, be right back.
ive checked, the cam sensors are exactly the same. the crank sensors are thw same length but the 96 is 3 wires and the 98 is 2 wires. the casting # XXXXX both crankshafts are the same and so are the blocks
Where did the rod come through the block?
#4 rod. through the left side of block between the dipstick tube and rear of block
Did you do the relearn procedure after you reconected the battery for the anti theft system?
no i didnt. i was wondering if the anti theft system might have something to do with it
Try this for me please, try to start the car but only bump the starter with the key, then let the key return the the run posion. the anti theft light should be blinking. Let it sit in the run position for 10 minutes and the light shoudl stop blinking. when the light stops blinking, turn the switch to off and then try to start the enigne.
ok, let me try it. ill get back to you and let you know
Once you have turn the key from start to run, do not touch the key till the light stops flashing. If the light stops flashing in less then 10minutes, there is a problem with the anti theft system and we will have to do some testing to see why.
ok. ill be back in a few
ok, i tried bumping the motor over and leaving the key in the run posistion. the theft light came on and stayed on steady (no blinking) i waited 10 minutes and the light never went out
Try doing the same thing but this time turn the enigne over for a couple of seconds and see if the light starts to fash when you return the key to the run position please.
ok, hang on
no, the light still stays on steady
Di you replace the timeing chain before you put the engine in the car?
no. the motor was running fine in the 1996 car. the car body was junk
Have you double checked to make sure all hte ground wires are conected at the block and the bolts are good and tight? Also do you have a digital volt meter and a test light?
Also do you have a scanner that will give you live data stream?
ill double check the ground wires. yes i have a digital multimeter and a test light. no scanner
If all the grounds are good, then we will have to do some testing, while you are checking teh grounds, I will pull the tests we need to go over.
For some of the tests you will need a helper, do you have one? If not do you havea remote starter button?
i have a helper
all the grounds are clean and tight
Ok let me scan in the pin outs for the ignition module so you know what I need you to test.
Did the diagram come through?
Here is a link where you can get the diagram, http://s927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/kalamykid/98%20caviler/
i do have a chiltons manuall for this car
Just click on it twice and it will blow up so you can see it better.
Chiltons will not have the pin out for the icm plugs.
ive got your diagram now
The first thing I need you to do will be to unplug the two wire plug, conect a test light between the twi terminals and turn the ignition switch to run, does the test light light up?
hang on ill ckeck
do you mean the terminals on the wire or on the module?
The wires please, if you have a small paper clip, you can slide it into the back of the plug so the paper clip is makeing contact witht he conector in the plug, so you do not damage the wires, then use the tip of the test light on the front side to test the other terminal.
i checked the wires at the plug, the test light comes on
I need you to plug the two pin plug back in, then unplug the 6 wire plug. With your meter set to ohms, see what the resisitance is for pins A and E with the ignition switch on please?
1.23 oms with ign on and off
I need you to pull the crank sensor out please, and see if it will stick to the bottom of the oil pan.
I believe you may have a bad crank sensor.
But we can test the sensor.
ok hang on a sec
crank sensor is brand new and it is magnitized
With the sensor not touching any metel, see what the ohms reading is betweent he two pins in the sensor please?
1.24 oms on sensor
Are you sure you have your meter set to ohms and not dcv?
yes its set to oms
Then your crank sensor is bad.
its brand new
I know but the ohms shoudl read between 700 and 1300
WIth you haveing the same reading at the sensor as you do at the plug for the icm, I know your problem is not a wire problem.
i reset my meter to read 1000 oms setting, im now getting 1295 oms on sensor
Reconet the ceank sensor back up wth out putting it back in, and restest pins a and e please.
1303 oms on pins a&e
Set you meter to AC volts reconect to pins A and E and have your helper turn the engine over and see what the AC volt reading is please.
I need to step out ofr just a few minutes, I will be right back.
im not getting anything for a reading
Do you have the old harness form the 96 car still?
I am sorry you needed to put the crank sensor back in before doing this test, please put it back in and make sure it is plugged up, then redo the AC volt test when cranking the enigne over please.
ok, i thought about that ......lol
I am sorry, I forgot I told you not to put it back in when you did the ohms test.
im still not getting a reading
And if so, do you need it for anything?
no i dont have the harness anymore
Do this for me please, redo the Aand E test with your meter set to ohms, while you are testing it, have your helper unplug the crank sensor and see if the reading changes to 0 please.
yes, i lost all resistance
Your problem has to be the ignition module. Can you remove it and take it to your local auto parts store and have them test it please?
I know auto zone and advance auto parts should have a terster for it.
yes i can do that. your talkig about the module under the 2 coil packs?
ok, ill take it to get it tested. it will take me awhile to do this. will you be around latter today or tomorrow?
Yes I will be here. I have to go pick up some parts myself, so I will e gone for about two hours, but will check back in with you as soon as I get back.
ok. it may take me longer than that, ive only got 1 vehicle and several errands to do
then that gives me a few extra minutes to do what I have to. Would you like to meat back up say in 4 hours?
id like to but i may not get done that soon
That is ok, I will be here when you get back and we can continue then. Just drop me a line to this chat screen and I will be back with you asap.
You are welcome.
I am here if you need me.
the ign cont mod checked out ok
Have you checked all the fuses in both fuse boxes to nake sure they all have 12 volts on both sides of the fuse with the fuses in the fuse box?
i know all the fuses are good but havent checked the voltage
Check the voltages please, just to make sure you do not have low voltages to some of them.
ok, give me a few minutes to check
im getting between 12.15 and 12.20 volts on all fuses
Do you still have the icm out?
yes, i just got home
With your meter set to ohms, see what the oms reading is across the two pins for the coils please.
im not getting any reading
Can you try again, but this time switch the knob a couple of times first just to make sure it is not acting up like earlier today.
with meter set on 2000k im getting a reading of around 850
Your meter does have a dc and an ac volts setting corect?
Set you r meter to AC volts and see what you get when you test pins A and E on the 6 pin conector, and have some one turn the enigne over again, and see what the ac volts is with the crank sensor in the block please.
Make sure the crank senosr is plugged in please.
no voltage at pins a&e
YOu do have your meter set to ac volts correct and not dc volts?
is it possable that even thought the parts refferance says the casting number for both crankshafts is the same the parts numbers are different. could the reluctor rings be different? yes, the meter is set to ac volts
I do not think so, I just used a 95 crank in a 99 cav, just two weeks ago. The problem has to be in the crank sensor, or he depth the sensor is going in to the block. Do you have the 96 crank sensor? if so can you compair the deth of the two and see if they are the same? YOu should have had atleast 200mv when you where turning the enige over if the sensor was picking up reluctor ring.
You can always pull the sensor back out, hold your test leads to the pins in the sensor, and move the tip of the sensor over a metal object and see if you get a reading that way, just to see if the sensor is the problem.
i compared the 2 sensors by looking at them next to eachother and also stuck both into the 98 block to see how close they sat to the reluctor ring. they both appeared to be the same measurements. just different wireing
That is what i thought, so it has to be a bad sensor. all the rest of the readings are good, but the ohms test on the module, and the ac voltage test on the crank sensor.
didnt we test the sensor earlier?
All we did was an ohms test to see if it had a broken wire, the ac voltage test is the only way to know if the sensor is working correctly.
ok, so what should i do next?
set your meter to ac volts, pull the crank sensor out. hold the test leads to the pins in the sensor, use the corner of the fender as a contact point, and move the crank sensor back and forth over the corner of the fender and see if you get a reading.
ok give me a few minutes
YOu can even tap thr tip on the corner kinda fast to see if you get a reading.
with meter set on ac volts, im not getting any readings at all on the sensor
Then it has to be bad. nCan you get a new sensor, "and test it there at the store" and see if another sensor will read correctly?
ok, that will have to wait until tomorrow morning. this is a new sensor that i just purchased 2 days ago, i should be able to exchange it
to test it at the store, what should the oms read and what reading should i get on ac volts?
All you have to do is just the ac volts test, if it is good, then the ohms will be ok as well, but the ohms reading shoudl be between(NNN) NNN-NNNN
ok, ill get that done tomorrow morning
I will be back online around 10 am eastern time. Chat with you then.
thanks for the help today. chat with you more tomorrow
You are very welcome. We will get this one up and running tomorrow.
ive got a new crank sensor and installed it in motor, also reinstalled the ICM and coil packs, im still not getting any spark. i purchased a new multimeter because i didnt trust the readings i was getting with old meter
Set your meter to ac volts, and see what you get when you turn the engine over as you are testing pins A and E please.
im only getting .3volts
yes i do, i was wondering if i could wire it into the 98 harness
ok, give me awhile to get this done
still wont start
im checking that now
no spark, nothing on ac test
Can you do the ac test on the new crank sensor you just got and see if the sensor itself will give you a reading, remeber to use the corner of the fender as a trigger, you can tapp the tip of the snensor with a screw driver if you need to instead of the corner of the fender. did you hear the 96 engine run?
explain how to do the test again so im sure im doing it right
yes i have the pigtail. ok, let me try test
im not getting ang reading with tap test
ok, sensor back in motor, extra pigtail hooked up to sensor and meter. 6 pin and 2 pin connectors plugged into ICM. meter set to dc volts, i get nothing when i crank motor
can you pull the sensor out of the engine, and redo the tap test opn both ac and dc volts please? Make sure you are useing a steel screw driver " if it is good for the test, it will stick to the tip of the sensor" and see if you get a reading on either setting? If you do not, then you have to have a bad meter or a bad sensor. I have a sensor here with me, and I get a reading on both settings so you shoudl too. It is not unheard of to get more then one bad sensor from the same auto parts store.
yes i can do that. im using both of my meters just to double check the readings. hang on and ill pull the sensor and retry tap test
nothing on ac or dc from either meter
my wife is in town now. im trying to get ahold of her and have her pick me up anouther sensor from a different store
the last 2 sensors were BWD from orielly's. advance didnt have any in stock. im going to call auto zone and napa and try to find another sensor. i doubt that both of my meters are bad, im getting good readings from them both on other tests
auto zone has a duralast brand sensor
will you be available latter today or tomorrow morning?
ok talk to ya then
ok, i got a good sensor. i did the tap test for ac and dc volts, got a reading so put it in block used pigtail and cranked motor got higher readings than i did on tap test. im still not getting any spark at the plugs useing a spark tester
ok, ill do it tomorrow morning. its dark out now and im working on the car in the yard. you want to see if the readings are the same at A & E as they are from the pigtail, correct?
ok, ill give that a try first thing in the morning and let you know what happens. just for my information, ive noticed that the light doesnt flash, it stays on. does that matter?
id love to reconnect and do the relearn tonight but im working outside in my yard and dont have any lights to see what im doing
i wasnt getting any signal from the sensor
ok, ill get things hooked up and do the relearn in the morning. ill have my fingers crossed that i can send you good news after i get it done
have a good night. chat with you tomorrow
i did ac voltage test on pins A & E got same readings as i did on pigtail. connected everything up. disconnected battery for 15 minutes and reconnected it. cranked motor over a couple times and left key in run posistion. waited 10 minutes and theft light never went out, i waited an aditional 5 minutes and light still is on. i tried to start motor and have no spark
Do you have no spark on any of the plug wires? Did you turn the switch to start , run start and back to run? Or did you just let the enigne turn over for a second or two then leave the switch in the run position?
no spark at any plug wire. tried to turn motor over a couple seconds and left key in run position
ok, give me awhile to check them
im getting zero oms between the pins on both coils
im not getting anything on either coil
Do you have the two coils form the otherenigne? If you do test them please. Make sure you are useing something that will go into the slot of the coil and makeing contact inside the slot with the metal contact, "I use a paper clip that will fit into the slot". SO you are testing form slot to slot, then from slot to the coil tower on each side of the coil, for a total of three readings on each coil. Make sure your meteris set to ohms.
yes, i have the other coils. ill check them
i double checked all 4 coils, 0 oms from slot to slot and no reading from slot to post
no reading from post to post on any coil
Double check your meter, you shoudl be getting around a 0.5 from slot to slot on the coils. make sure you have a good conection in the slots of the coils.
double checked usein both meters, 0 oms slot to slot. no reading slot to post and no reading post to post
a flat spade connector
yes it does
ive been testing on 200k. it wouldnt surprise me to have 4 bad coils, that would be my luck. ill go retest all 4 again
im a step ahead of you on that. iv tested all 4 coils on every oms setting on both meters. i get 0 oms from slot to slot and no reading from slot to post or post to post
i probably fried the 2 coils along with the ICM from the 96 motor when i hooked them up to the 98 wiring harness. and the coils from the 98 have been sitting out in the weather for a couple months
i had both ICMs tested the other day, the 98 was good and 96 was bad. i am useing the 98 ICM and coils but im not surprised the coils may be bad. ill take the 98 ICM and have it tested again and buy 2 new coils
had the ICM tested again, it still shows to be good. passed the test 5 times. bought 2 new coils, got them home and got the same readings as the old ones. my meter has an audible continuity setting, im getting a tone between the slots
is it possible that im not getting a good connection on the 6 pin plug? it does look a little worn out and some of the connecters appear to be spread open
ok,ill try to locate an ICM on monday. dont worry about taking time to reply, i understand you have a shop to run.have a good sunday, ill get back to you on monday
good morning. i took ICM to another parts store and had it checked. they ran the test 5 times and it tested good every time. i got new coils and tested them, i got the same readings on the new ones that i got on the old ones. i replaced the 6 pin pigtail with a new one. did oms test and ac voltage test on pins A & E. with meter set on 2K oms i got a reading of 1.06 and with meter set on 200 setting i got 00.3 ac volts while cranking motor
i didnt check that yet. was just letting you know what i did so far and readings im getting
i checked for spark, still nothing on any wire
is there any way i can test the out put? what are the other 4 wires on the pigtail for? the anti theft light is still on, can that system be bypassed? the light never came on before i changed motors
You can use a test light conected to the two pins under the coil. Use a test light after you have removed the coil, just clip to one pin, and hold the test light tip to the other pin and turn the enign eover, the light shoudl flash when the engine turns over. If it is good, the light will flash kinda fast. If it does not flash at all, conect the clip to a good grond, and test each pin with the test light tip with the engine turning over and see if either one will light the test light.
ok, from pin to pin and cranking motor, i get nothing. from ground to pin, i get 1 pin on each set light up when i crank motor they do not flash
i got called into work, so ill have to continue this latter
with the test results I got with the test light r u thinking the ICM is bad