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jazzmaster
jazzmaster, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 2405
Experience:  ASE .AUTO TECH FOR THIRTY-FIVE YRS,ELCTRICAL,FUEL INJECTION ETC.
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1990 chevy lumina engine starts then dies need help.

Resolved Question:

1990 chevy lumina engine starts then dies need help.
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Chevy
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.
hi, does this run for 2-3 seconds or longer?does it shut right off?does it start right back up?...guy..
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hi guy, engine starts and shuts right off. it will continue to do this as long as i try to start it.
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.
ok, there is something wrong on this site that for the past 24 hrs is not letting me post flow charts or diagrams so lets try this ,since it starts and runs,you will need to get a spark tester and run it (inline tester)and see if the spark quits when this happens,also if this has a rpm gauge see if that quits before it dies out,also try spraying carb cleaner in the throttlebody when it starts to die to see if it will still run on carb cleaner,if it does then you are looking at a fuel related problem and we can go from there...guy
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
guy, i just want to make sure you understand that the engine does not run at all. it starts and immediately dies. this all happens within one to two seconds.
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.
ok, then you still need to spray some carb cleaner in the throttle body to see if it will run while someone cranks the engine..guy
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
guy, i sprayed carb cleaner in the throttle body and the engine continues to run as long as i keep spraying the carb cleaner. where do i go from here ?
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.
alright ,now that shows that spark is good ,you need to test the fuel pump circuit and the fuel pressure and for injector pulse, did you check the injector fuse?,can you hear the fuel pump run for 2-3 seconds when you turn the key on (dont crank it at this point just turn the key on ,if you dont hear the pump run turn the key off and wait a few seconds then turn it back on again ,listen for the pump (hint ,take off the gas cap and listen there too)if you dont hear it run then we will go from there ,to check the injector pulse first check the fuses and if those are good the you will need an injector tester(noid light)or you can check for power at the pink/black wire at one of the injectors with the key on ,on the other wire at the injector check for a ground (pulsating light) while cranking the motor,let me know what you find ....guy...
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hello guy, i have not been able to work on car because of rain for last couple days.answer to your last reply. fuel pump runs for about two to three seconds then shuts off.i disconected fuel line and the pump pumps about four ozs.of fuel in thoes two or three seconds. all fuses are good.i have power in pink/black wire going to injectors. i cannot get to injectors to check injector pulse without removing intake manifold.please reply and let me know what to do now.thanks....jim...
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.

ok,you have good fuel volume,and you have spark so the problem has to lie in the injectors or circuit you can test the pulsating ground at the connector to the injectors ,,the site still has a problem with getting diagrams and pictures for some reason so please bear with me ,(not my fault)at the connector there are lt green and lt blue wires the lt green go to injectors #1-3-5 and the lt blue go to injectors #2-4-6 so use a test light to power and crank over the motor the light should pulsate on and off it the circuit is good ,if it is dim or does not pulsate right it could be a short or shorted injector ,if there is no light it could be the ecm .let me know please ,and sorry again about the diagrams it would be so much easier if i COULD SEND THEM TO YOU ...GUY..

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hello guy, i checked lt.green and lt.blue wires to injectors with ign.on. four wires have a bright light and two wires have a light thats very dim. the four bright lights flicker when i crank the engine. the two dim lights go out when i crank the engine. hope this tells you what the problem is. ...jim...
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.
can you please tell me the color of the wires and what each one did please ...guy
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hello guy, i have a bright light at the lt.green and blue wire with ign.on.they stay on when i crank the engine.please get back to me today if possible.iam going away for the next few days and would like to know what you belive the problem is. i will contact you again i get back.thanks...jim...
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.
ok if you have a bright light at the lt green and the lt blue with the key cranking and the test light one end is connected to the positive battery terminal and the other to the either lt green or light blue wire ,and while cranking these should be blinking on and off then there is either a problem with the ecm or the wires are shorted to ground or you have a few shorted injectors,disconnect the harness and see if you have the same results on the harness end that comes from the harness not the harness that goes to the injectors,if that proves ok then the injectors(one or two of them)may be either shorted or the lt blue or green wire is shorted,you can try with the harness disconnected and with an ohm meter connect one lead to the lt green and the other to a good ground if it reads any kind of resistance or any reading other than nothing (that is if it reads 00.0 or anything like that then there is a short ,same as the lt blue wire,it should read nothing,if it reads then you will have to take the intake off and check each injector...guy
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hello guy, i am back and need to get this engine running if possible. i disconnected the injector harness at the plug. at the lt. green and lt.blue wires i get a pulsating light when cranking the engine. i get a 00.0 resistance reading at the lt.green and lt. blue wires going to the injectors.i hope this information will tell you what the problem is. thanks ...jim...
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.

ok ,my data is back online here are some flow charts ,I do think you have an injector problem ,either one or more injectors are shorted ,...guy...

TEST DESCRIPTION: Numbers below refer to circled numbers on the diagnostic chart.

  1. Checks for 12 volt supply to injectors. Due to the injectors wired in parallel there should be a light "ON" on both terminals.
  2. Checks continuity of CKT 467.
  3. All checks made to this point would indicate that the ECM is at fault. However, there is a possibility of CKT 467 being shorted to a voltage source either in the engine harness or in the mini harness.

To test for this condition:

  • Disconnect black mini harness connector.
  • Ignition "ON". Probe CKTs 467 and 468 on the ECM side of harness with a test light connected to ground. There should be no light. If light is "ON", repair short to voltage.
  • If OK, check the resistance of the injector harness between terminals "A" & "F".
  • Should be 4 to 5 ohms.
  • If less than 4 ohms, check harness for wires shorted together and check each injector resistance. There should be no continuity between terminals "A" & "F". If there is continuity, check harness for wires shorted together.
  • Resistance of each injector should be 12.2 ohms +/- 0.2 ohms (at ambient temperature). Injector resistance will increase with temperature and could read as high as 14.4 ohms at 93~C.
  • If all OK, replace ECM

also the fuel pressure should be at 40-47 lbs,

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you might have to take off the intake to gain access to the injectors if the resistance is not where it should be

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hello guy, i removed the intake manifold and tested each injector. they all have power and a bright light with ign off and test light at pos. battery cable. ground end is at either lt. blue or lt green wire at injector.lite goes out when ign is turned on. when engine is cranked the light comes on very dim and pulsats. the resistance reading at each injector is between 16.4 and 17.00 . i hope this test will give us an answer. thanks...jim...
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.
ok, the readings on the injectors is a little high that concerns me and there should be a bright pulsating light at the ground side of the injectors when cranking the motor,it should not be lit when the ignition is off,that tells me that there is something wrong with the ecm,I think you might have 2 problems first the injectors should read around 11.0-13.0 and that the ground side of the injectors is shorting and/or that the ecm is bad,how did you do the resistance test on the injectors ? also the pulsating light should be bright on the ground side,are you sure that there is battery voltage on the positive side of the injectors ?
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.
hi, did you check to see if there is battery voltage on the injectors with the ignition on ...guy
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hello, guy i have voltage at all injectors with ign. on. i have no light at lt. green and lt blue wires with ign. on. when cranking engine i have a dim blinking light at lt.blue and lt. green wires. the weather was much better here today so i rechecked the resistance at all lt. green and lt. blue wires at all injectors. today i got a reading of between 13.00 and 14. 00 ohms. i think the lousy weather was the reason for the high reading i got before.i believe i probably need to replace the ecm.is this a difficult job? i can get a used one at salvage yard for 50 dollars. i would like to know how you feel about this. thanks...jim...
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.
ok, before you buy an ecm check the voltages and grounds at the ecm using these charts ,a volt meter will work fine for this,if all of the grounds and votages are there then replace the ecm ,since the light is blinking and dim It points in that direction ,but check the values with the connectors unplug and checking the values at the connectors ..P.S. with an ohm meter check the wires for the injectors from the injectors to the ecm plugs with the battery disconnected....guy..

Edited by GUY V.I. on 5/14/2010 at 9:50 AM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hello guy, i replaced the ecm with a rebulit one. engine still does not start.i have developed another problem now. i do not have any fuel volume or fuel pressure when testing with fuel testing gauge. i can hear the fuel pump running for 2 to 3 seconds with ign. on. i get approx. 1 oz. after turning ign on and off several times. the fuel pump has been replaced....jim...
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.

hi ,I am,going to give you the complete flow charts for no start and fuel follow these and let me know the resuls also here is the pin-out readout for the powers and grounds going to the ecm ...guy

graphic

you will have to bear with me something is wrong with this site and is not allowing me to post theflow charts and diagrams .

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION:

This chart assumes that battery condition and engine cranking speed are OK, and there is adequate fuel in the tank.

TEST DESCRIPTION: Numbers below refer to circled numbers on the diagnostic chart.

  1. A "SERVICE ENGINE SOON" light "ON" is a basic test to determine if there is a 12 volt supply and ignition 12 volts to ECM. No ALDL, may be due to an ECM problem and CHART A-2 will diagnose the ECM. If TPS is over 2.5 volts the engine may be in the clear flood mode which will cause starting problems. The engine will not start without reference pulses and therefore the "Scan" should read rpm (reference) during crank.
  2. For the first two seconds with ignition "ON" or whenever reference pulses are being received, PPSW should indicate fuel pump circuit voltage (8 to 12 volts).
  3. Because the direct ignition system uses two plugs and wires to complete the circuit of each coil, the opposite spark should be left connected. If rpm was indicated during crank, the ignition module is receiving a crank signal, but no spark at this test indicates the ignition module is not triggering the coils.
  4. The test light should blink, indicating the ECM is in control of the injectors. How bright the light blinks is not important. However, the test light should be a J-34730-3 or equivalent.
  5. Use fuel pressure gage J-34730-1 or equivalent. Wrap a shop towel around the fuel pressure tap to absorb any small amount of fuel leakage that may occur when installing the gage.
  6. This test will determine if the ignition module is not generating the reference pulse or if the wiring or ECM are at fault. By touching and removing a test light to 12 volts on CKT 430, a reference pulse should be generated. If rpm is indicated, the ECM and wiring are OK.
  7. This test will determine if the ignition module is not triggering the problem coil or if the tested coil is at fault. This test could also be performed by using another known good coil.
  8. graphic
  9. this is all I could put on for now I will ty to put the rest on later
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hello guy, i dissconected the 3 wire plug at thet tps. looks like a black,a blue and gray wire. with a volt meter i checked gray wire to pos. and black wire to ground and got a volt reading of 4.5 volts. according to chart it should no more than 2.5 volts. please reply....jim...
Expert:  jazzmaster replied 4 years ago.

the tps will not stop a vehicle from starting ,the grey wire is the 5 volts reference to the tps the black is ground and the blue is the input back to the ecm for determining the pulse width ratio ,the test you saw was for the tps reading when connected and hooked up to a scanner,let me try to get you those flow charts and diagrams i am not sure if the site is up and working fully ...guy

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also check these values and voltages

jazzmaster, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 2405
Experience: ASE .AUTO TECH FOR THIRTY-FIVE YRS,ELCTRICAL,FUEL INJECTION ETC.
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