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GM-Frank
GM-Frank, ASE Master Certified
Category: Chevy
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Experience:  37 Years Automotive Diagnosis and Repair. 25 Years of General Motors Dealer Experience
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98 Camaro: v6..engine control..keys..t believe it is the key chip

Resolved Question:

I have a 98 Camaro v6 3.8 that sometimes does not start due to no power to the engine control fuse. We replaced the ignition control and I have two keys with chips and so I don''t believe it is the key chip.   What would cause no power to the engine control fuse when attempting to start the car? When the car does start then it runs fine until it is shut off.
Submitted: 6 years ago.
Category: Chevy
Expert:  GM-Frank replied 6 years ago.

 

HelloCustomer

Just a quick question that should help me to isolate your concern.

So it is not blowing the 15A fuse...you go out under the hood to check and with key on, and there is no power to eng.Control Fuse when you check with a test lamp.

Are there any other symptoms or related items that you may find not working when the engine doesn't start.

Let me know

Frank

Expert:  GM-Frank replied 6 years ago.

 

Important to my helping you, I need to know if INJ 1 fuse and INJ 2 fuses have no power along with the ENG CTRL fuse. Also check A/C CRUISE 15A fuse in the same underhood electrical center.

Frank

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Reply to GM-Frank's Post: Of course, now the car starts every time so I can not positively answer your questions (Until if doesn't start again). However, I think that the Inj1 fuse has power even when the 15A engine control fuse does not. There is no inj2 fuse in the box. I don't really know right now about the A/c comp fuse. The 15 amp engine control fuse does not blow, it just occasionally will now power up and allow the car to start. All lights, etc. work fine and the car turns over great. At times it starts immediately and sometimes will not fire when there is no power to the eng cont fuse as shown by the test lamp.
Thanks for the prompt response and questions.
Expert:  GM-Frank replied 6 years ago.

 

I'm going to send you the schematic for the systemCustomer and you'll see why I have asked the questions that I did.

You'll notice that the Eng Ctrl, AC CRUISE both receive their power from the Ignition relay.

The Ignition Relay is also located in the same Underhood Electrical Center 2 where the Eng Ctrl fuse is located.

If the power source for Eng Ctrl fuse is missing, then either the relay is malfunctioning, or the primary side to the Ignition Relay is not being energized.

The Relay primary side receives its power directly from the pink wire at the ignition switch. This tells me that you may have an Ingnition switch failing, or the connections at the switch may be intermittant.

The other power source to check is the secondary Ignition Relay power source. If the Red wire to the Relay is Intermittant, then there is a possiblity of a fuse link problem.

Focus on the Ignition Switch Electrical portion of the switch and possible switch intermittant failure or the Ignition Relay. The electrical portion of these ignition switches can and do fail.

graphic

 

This information should be all that you need to isolate your problem. If you can't see a problem, you may need to wait for the problem to happen in order to isolate it.

I sincerely, XXXXX XXXXX information will help

Have A Great Day

Frank

GM-Frank, ASE Master Certified
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 431
Experience: 37 Years Automotive Diagnosis and Repair. 25 Years of General Motors Dealer Experience
GM-Frank and 2 other Chevy Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
I will check the other fuses whenever the car decides not to start again. A mechanic helping me with this said that all of the fuses have power except the 15 A. engine control when the car does not fire. One thing that I forgot, when there is no power to the eng cont fuse, just leaving the key in the on position for several minutes will sometimes allow the fuse to power up. Thanks for your help and I will let you know as soon as possible. Of course, a car never has the problem when there is a mechanic on hand.
Expert:  GM-Frank replied 6 years ago.

 

I would focus on the Ign Relay and Ignition Switch.

When you look closely at the circuit, if the Eng Control Fuse has no power on both sides, and the A/C Cruise Fuse has power, then the problem lies in right in the fuse holder contacts.

Or you should turn the Underhood Electrical Center 2 upside down and check the connections closely to the Eng Control Fuse. Backtrace to the Splice and then to the Relay. There's not much more to it.

Frank

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Reply to GM-Frank's Post: GM-Frank RE: Camaro not starting sometimes. The car is still starting right now, but when it does not start the ignition relay has power into it but there is no power to the ign. control fuse. All other fuses have power. We have swapped relays and have the same problem of the car turning over but not firing. We replaced the ignition switch under the steering column which seemed to help but once in a while the car still does not want to fire. In your schematic can you tell us where ground dist. cell 14 is physically located so we can check the ground there? Also is there any remote possibility that an emission control sensor could cause the problem?
Expert:  GM-Frank replied 6 years ago.

 

OKCustomer

So that we are sure we have power where we should.

When you cycle the key on and off, you should be able to feel the relay click. Place your fingers on the relay, and have someone turn the key on and off for you.

That will tell you that the Pink has power, and that the ground to Cell 14 is OK.

At your ignition relay, you should have 12v. in 2 of the pin locations.

Key on, there should be power to the pin where the red wire is located, and where the pink wire is located. You can pull the relay and probe this with a test light. If The red wire has no power,

That is where the #30 and #85 locations are on the relay both should have 12v with key on. If not we'll go from there.

graphic

 

If the relay doesn't click when key is turned to run, let me know.

Frank

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Frank, It finally quite working again (for a short time) and neither In 1 nor the engine control had power but A/c cruise did have power. After a few minutes of leaving the key on everything powered up and the car started. It all came on as I was checking the fuse box with the light probe. Then there was a clicking sound from under the glove box (passengers side) but I did not have time to remove the dash cover and see what that is about. Right now the car is starting again.
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Frank, forget the above. It stopped firing again and only the ABS and PCM fuses were lighting. I pulled the IGN fuse and the there was power there to the front two terminals, but before I could recheck the A/c Comp everything turned on and the car started. A great puzzle to me but next time I will check the A/C Comp first.
Don Price
Expert:  GM-Frank replied 6 years ago.

 

Don,

There is a real good chance that when you are probing there, you are right at the problem circuit, and that could very well be why as you are working in that area, things start working again.

Check that the metal terminals haven't lost there spring tension, and look real close for any discoloration or signs of heat or melted plastic in the area of the relay and fuses.

Seems funny, that you start probing and things come back to life.

Frank

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
Frank, I have finally gotten things to the point that the car seems to start everytime (so far) but now the door locks,including the remote lock, do not work and there is a clicking sound from behind the glove box. Is there some connection between the electric and remote door locks, and the fuse box or ignition? Would a short or a bad door lock relay of some type affect whether the fuses would power up to allow the firing of the engine? When the locks worked the engine sometimes did not fire: now it seems to start fine but the locks do not work.
Expert:  GM-Frank replied 6 years ago.

 

The Door lock fuse picks up it's main power from the very same location as the Engine Control Fuse.

This #8 courtesy fuse door lock fuse also powers the BCM. This fuse is in the IP fuse block.

I am going to try to locate the lug where the power is picked up for both.

Underneath the electrical center under the hood that has the EngCont Fuse in it, there are some Fusible Links. They are Wires that have rubbery insulation on them and they are designed to burn like a fuse in case of a major short. I believe that where these fusible links may not be secured tightly at where they pick up battery their voltage supply.

The one that supplys the Eng Control and the IP fuse #8 for Body Control and Door Locks will be a Gray on under this electrical center under the hood.

The Fuse Link may also stretch if the link inside of the insulation is burned part way.

Pull gently on the fuse link and you can sometimes find the problem that way.

I don't know for sure if this image is labeled correctly, but you know the one that needs to be checked.

 

graphic

 

Hope this does the trick


Frank

GM-Frank, ASE Master Certified
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 431
Experience: 37 Years Automotive Diagnosis and Repair. 25 Years of General Motors Dealer Experience
GM-Frank and 2 other Chevy Specialists are ready to help you

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