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Doug C.
Doug C., ASE Certified Technician
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 6298
Experience:  16 years automotive and OTR repair including specialized training from Toyota and Mitsubishi
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Scion tC: So, heres one for you, I replaced the flywheel and

Customer Question

So, heres one for you, I replaced the flywheel and clutch, well, a friend decited to install everything one his own. He installed the pilot bearing before "trying" to bolt on the tranny,,the tranny would not sit flush to the block so he decited to use the bolts to pull the tranny in. I had a come apart when I finally realized what he was doing. Besides him breaking off the bottom ear of the block from "pulling" the tranny in, now my motor will not turn over. I thought the output shaft was wedged against pilot bushing and thats why it wouldnt move, so I removed the tranny and still no movement of motor even while trying to rotate at the crank bolt. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Submitted: 12 months ago.
Category: Car
Expert:  Doug C. replied 12 months ago.
Hi,

There is no pilot bearing for this model.... when you get aftermarket kits that fit multiple applications they include the pilot bearing so they do not have to stock two different packages with the same clutch hardware in them (it is cheaper to put a $3 bearing in a box than it is to make two separate products, take up twice as much shelf space, etc).

So for starters you need to remove that pilot bearing as that is what bound up the engine and transmission initially.

Now with the transmission removed, the engine should no longer be bound up. Are we certain nothing is bound up on the drive belt from the engine hanging a bit without the transmission etc? There is nothing relevant really to the clutch job that would cause the engine to bind after the transmission was removed except for really wildcard stuff (crank pushed in somehow from crushing things together etc)
Customer: replied 12 months ago.


Thats why I damn near had a come apart, because I knew that it didn't need the pilot, my friend decited he would work on my car while I was at work. The pilot has been removed along with the tranny, and no rotation at all, ((crank pushed in somehow from crushing things together etc)) is the thought path that I have been on, working on pulling the motor, but wanted to see if it was even neccesary, but looks like it's going to need to be pulled anyway.


((Are we certain nothing is bound up on the drive belt from the engine hanging a bit without the transmission etc?))


Belt has been removed as well as the a/c compressor and alt. And still no go from the crank bolt.

Expert:  Doug C. replied 12 months ago.
I'm sorry for the delay, I didn't get the message you had posted.

Unfortunately I don't really see anything else we could really have, as unusual as that situation would be.... you would think the pilot bearing would be the weaker of the two entities when you are talking about a part failing from crushing stuff together.

Is the flywheel removed from the crank shaft now? I'm not sure what could have happened there, but I' having a hard time picturing internal engine damage from this alone.... this isn't the first instance of a pilot bearing getting installed by accident.
Customer: replied 12 months ago.

Thats why I damn near had a come apart, because I knew that it didn't need the pilot, my friend decited he would work on my car while I was at work. The pilot has been removed along with the tranny, and no rotation at all, ((crank pushed in somehow from crushing things together etc)) is the thought path that I have been on, working on pulling the motor, but wanted to see if it was even neccesary, but looks like it's going to need to be pulled anyway.


((Are we certain nothing is bound up on the drive belt from the engine hanging a bit without the transmission etc?)) tranny, clutch, flywheel and pilot are all removed,

Belt has been removed as well as the a/c compressor and alt. And still no go from the crank bolt.
Expert:  Doug C. replied 12 months ago.

Hi.... it looks like my last post may not have gone through, let me repost.... I apologize for the issues today.

::
Unfortunately I don't really see anything else we could really have, as unusual as that situation would be.... you would think the pilot bearing would be the weaker of the two entities when you are talking about a part failing from crushing stuff together.

Is the flywheel removed from the crank shaft now? I'm not sure what could have happened there, but I' having a hard time picturing internal engine damage from this alone.... this isn't the first instance of a pilot bearing getting installed by accident.

::

 

Additionally, can you budge the engine anti-clockwise at all (if you can don't go far, just to check and see if there is any movement that way)?

Customer: replied 12 months ago.
No movement counter clockwise either, actually I made the crank bolt come loose trying
Expert:  Doug C. replied 12 months ago.
Holy smokes.

Unfortunately your buddy has likely put you in a very uncomfortable position here. As odd as it would be that the crank would move before the pilot bearing was destroyed, it appears that this is the case.
With the engine rotating fine before hand, the transmission off and belt off so nothing is possible to bind the crank pulley or flywheel, your only possibility is an internal issue.

What has most likely happened is one of the main bearings has squished under the pressure. If the crank moves even 1/8" it is going to cause binding in the connecting rods/pistons, so it certain makes sense apart from the relative severity of such a minor (theoretical) change. I have seen these cars get pilot bearings installed before and not have permanent damage like this, however again if the engine rotated fine before hand and there is nothing obstructing the front or rear of the crankshaft where it is external, there is really nothing else it could be.

At this point it looks like you are going to need to drop your pans and see if you can see the damage, and if not loosen the main caps until you get rotation and check the bearings for lateral wear etc. Hopefully it will not go beyond bearing damage.
Customer: replied 12 months ago.

Thank you for your help!
Everything that you mentioned I had been leaning toward. But i just wanted to get a pro's opinion on this situation. Well the good news is all i have left to do is disconect the fuel line, hook up a picker and disconect one motor mount and the damn thing is coming out for inspection, Well at least instead of 10 different things running through my head of what it could be, now theres 1,,fried rod bearing(s), Thankyou again, I hope if i have problems in the future you can help me,


 

Expert:  Doug C. replied 12 months ago.
You're welcome, I'm sorry I don't have better news for you.... but as I'm sure you can see, there aren't a lot of options here if there is nothing external binding it then it must be internal.

Get that guy out of there and check that bottom end out. Something is jacked up in there. If you have a thrust bearing installed (a bearing with a "saddle" type design) it may be as simple as replacing that if it got crushed. If you have all traditional bearings it's going to get weird. Just do like I mentioned and loosen your mains first and see if you can regain movement there before you start getting into rod bearings. It may end up going there anyway, but start with the mains.

Good luck, and if you can let me know what you find as I am curious to hear (or see) the details of what occurred.

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