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Wicked Wrench
Wicked Wrench, ASE Master Certified
Category: Car
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Experience:  30 Years Automotive Experience GM/ASE Master Tech
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I have an older 1994 Cadillac Seville. When the dome lights

Customer Question

I have an older 1994 Cadillac Seville.

When the dome lights are put on with the remote key fob(either by unlocking with key fob or pressing the fob's interior light button) they stay on way beyond 20 seconds. 15 or 20 minutes or more. If I disconnect the battery the issue seems to be fixed in that the twenty second time out returns. But after a driving for awhile the issue of delayed timing out returns each time getting longer for the interior lights to time out. Is this a relay in the trunk that needs replacing or is it the Body Control Module?
Possibly related to this is the Retained Accessory Power to the radio, sunroof, wipers and windows. When I turn the key off they stay operable way beyond ten minutes. They do stop if I open any of the four doors but the time out seems frazzled.
Could these all be due to the same relay or module?
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Car
Expert:  Wicked Wrench replied 2 years ago.

Wicked Wrench :

Hello. The problem you are having is controlled by the BCM or Body Control Module. This module communicates with the RAP Retained Accessory Power Module, & about 15 other modules in the vehicle. Inputs to the BCM from the RKE Remote Keyless Entry Module tell the modules which function has been requested by you, & send the appropriate outputs to the other modules. It sounds to me like you may have a problem with a Door Handle Sensor, but this will take extensive diagnosis time & tools that a Service Center can better assist you.

Customer:

Since any of my 4 doors opening kicks off the radio, wipers, sunroof and windows can it still be a door sensor?

Customer:

I should also mention that the interiors lights don't stay on for twenty seconds when I enter the unlocked car. They just go on when I open the door and then shut off immedialtely on closing the door. The manual suggests they should stay on for twenty seconds or until I turn the key on. When I key fob the lights on turning the key on does turn the lights off.

Wicked Wrench :

Very good. Seems like you have the skills to somewhat rule out anything that indeed is working. The handles are sending a signal to the BCM & The BCM is in turn signalling the RAP module. I'm leaning toward the BCM, but let me take a look at SI from the GM Website to confirm. Give me a few please.

Wicked Wrench :















Interior Lamps









The illuminated entry system illuminates the car's interior. The system is activated by pressing the courtesy lights button or unlocking the doors with the Keyless Entry Transmitter.
The system turns off the lights after 20 seconds or if the ignition is turned to RUN or START. The system will not activate whenever the RAP feature is active.
Illuminated entry is controlled by the RAP/Illuminated Entry Module (RAPIE) . Battery voltage to power the RAPIE Module is applied to terminal A6 at all times. The RAPIE Module is grounded at terminal A5 to ground G400.
When the Keyless Entry Module is used to unlock the doors or to activate the courtesy lights, it grounds terminal A7 (CKT 394) of the RAPIE module. The RAPIE module then grounds the coil of the Courtesy Lights Relay through terminal A8 (CKT 1393). The relay energizes, closing its contacts and providing a path to ground for the courtesy lights.
Battery voltage from Fuse C1 and Fuse C3 is supplied at all times to the header and courtesy lamps respectively. The header and courtesy lamps ground through CKT 1495 and the contacts of the Courtesy Lights Relay to ground G401 (CKT 1250).
The RAPIE Module turns off the interior lights by removing the ground from the Courtesy Lights Relay coil, causing the relay to de-energize. This will occur after 20 seconds , or if the RAPIE Module senses battery voltage being applied to either terminal B1 (the ignition input) or terminal A1 (the crank input).



Wicked Wrench :

Full Size Image















Interior Lamps With Illuminated Entry

Customer:

Does this mean the RAPIE module is malfunctioning and needs to be replaced? Also does this RAPIE module have any possible relationship with the RAP relay not timing out the windows/radio/wipers/sunroof after ten minutes? Or is this a two separate issue problem?

Wicked Wrench :

Yes, but you should start by testing the circuits for proper voltage & grounds by checking voltage at the fuses & verifying continuity for the grounds.

Wicked Wrench :

Use the schematics to find the fuses & grounds you should be verifying. I have replaced a few of these modules over the years, and it does make sense, but you should alswys confirm the failure.

Wicked Wrench :

You've got some work to do here. I'm going to step out for a few & repair an engine with my son. I'll hang for a few to see if you have any other questions, if I do not see you back in a minute or two, I'll help him. I'll be back in a little while.

Customer:

Ok help your son. I am at sea on this one.

Wicked Wrench :

Thanks for using the site, & let me know what you find!

Wicked Wrench, ASE Master Certified
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 459
Experience: 30 Years Automotive Experience GM/ASE Master Tech
Wicked Wrench and 16 other Car Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Just to be clear do you think the interior light issue(eg not timing out after twenty seconds when turned on by Keyless Entry and not staying on for twenty seconds when opening and closing the door) is a separate issue from the RAP issue on the radio/wipers/windows/sunroof? I was hoping maybe one relay was shot that impacts the timeout of everything.

Expert:  Wicked Wrench replied 2 years ago.
It is controlled by the RAPIE module. The RAP Module provides accessory power until the doors are opened. It's a separate control, but if either of the two are not functioning correctly, communication is compromised through all the modules. Again, make sure your power & grounds are good at the RAPIE module. If ok, then I'd go for the RAPIE module. Now keep in mind that this module may have to be programmed with the scan tool, so ultimately, you may be at the mercy of the dealer, but at least you'll be educated on what they need to do.
Expert:  Wicked Wrench replied 2 years ago.
Hey Rob,
Just following up on the lighting issue with the Cadillac. If you still need me, gimme a holler. If not Thanks for using the site!

Happy Holidays!

W.W.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks for checking up. I have not been able to solve the issue and the mechanic I went to again disconnected the battery which led to the problem disappearing. Now as time goes on the issue is there but it is not an issue of indefinite retained power. For instance if I open the window and turn key on and off the RAP sustems goes for twenty-five minutes and then if I immediately test it again it might 22 minutes and sometimes 16 or 14 minutes. A variety of time but never the expected 10 minutes.

With the RAPIE entry light problem the light stays on for a variety of times as well (15 minutes/7 minutes etc but never the expected twenty seconds).

 

Seems then that maybe the BCM is what is causing the variability since the relays that eventually close the retained power down eventually work but just at no predictable time. Would that sound reasonable analysis to you?

 

I gather the BCM is quite expensive. More so than any of the RAP or RAPIE relays/modules involved.

Expert:  Wicked Wrench replied 2 years ago.
The RAPIE module contains the timer which controls the RAP time. Like I had stated before, I suspect this module to be faulty. Can you find another one?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks for staying interested and so helpful. Any chance that the RAPIE module is called something else? I have called the GM dealer and nothings with that description comes up. Maybe I could locate it remove it and take it to the GM mechanic to find a part that would do the same thing. A part number for a 1994 would be so helpful Do you have any ability to get part descriptions/nos.? Also where exactly is the module in the 94? The trunk?

 

Expert:  Wicked Wrench replied 2 years ago.

Yes it is located in the trunk. I did find one on Ebay.You can check the add out here>>>

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Cadillac-Deville-STS-Rapie-Module-12135007-/251042261369?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3a7348e979

It provides a part Identification Number. You may be able to take that number to the GM dealer and have them look it up. It may have been superceeded or discontinued, which in that case, you may want to try your luck on that ebay item. Let me see if I can get a pic of the location.

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Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks for that I just bought the ebay item, If it was superceded so be it. We'll see if I can fit it in. I hope I can figure out how to get to the old one.

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