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Jim
Jim, ASE Certified Technician
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Experience:  California smog licensed, ASE ceritied in L1, A6, A8 for over 30 years professionally
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My key no longer activates the ignition switch...power but no starter

Customer Question

I have a 94 RangeRover County LWB. My key no longer activates the ignition switch. It turns on power but no starter. i checked the battery and plenty of juice. Have taken the steering column apart to expose the starter mechanism. It is clamped around the steering around the steering column and a appears to be rivitted. Is there an unseen trick for removing this unit or do the rivetts have to be cut. Is the switch rebuildable or is it areplacement item.
Craig Petttitt, New Denver BC Canada
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Car
Expert:  Dad Mechanic replied 2 years ago.

JACUSTOMER-j74d4cev- :

Sorry you are haaving trouble. let me ask you a few questions first. have you checked to be sure the starter has power to it? Have you checked to see if you can jump the terminals at the starter to see if it will turn the motor from there. JIM

Customer :

Hi Jim:

JACUSTOMER-j74d4cev- :

Got any info for me yet? Jim

Customer :

So the other day I went to fire up the Rover and the key turned right to the end(fully clockwise) without engaging the starter. Then with the key in the off position it left the running lights on and the dash lights on. I had to disconnect the battery ground to shut off all the power. This morning we ( myself and a professional mechanic of fifty years experience on everthing from lawnmowers to fully computerized heavy dut6y multi ton turbo charged deisel excavators) used a remote starting unit to get the Rover going and we drove the vehicle to the shop. Once there we couldn’t shut it down. Removed the ground, kept running, disconnected the alternator, kept running, finally disconnected the positive battery post and it shut down. In dismantling the steering column we found a satellite power unit which was suspected, but no obvious way to remove the ignition switch. My mechanic hasn't worked on Range Rovers before this opne but has done consider work on this without any manuels. He figures there must be some trick that he isn't seeing for removing the ignition switch. Definitely the switch isn't working. Usually when you turn the fkey fully clockwise the spring loaded last 1/8 of the turn isn't there, the key just turns flatly to the end and stays there without springing back to the run position.

Customer :

I'm back, excuse the typos, any further questions

JACUSTOMER-j74d4cev- :

no problem I was unclear weather or not you had a starter problem or wiring. now that you hav clarified. Seam like you have checked it out. you need someone who is familar with this problem. good luck i will opt out so someone experance can help you. Thanks for using just answer. Jim

Customer :

I will be unavailable for the remainder of the evening will check in at 9 am pdt tomorrow and can be by the computer for any time during tomorrow(saturday)

Expert:  Walt-mod replied 2 years ago.
Hi, I'm a moderator for this topic. Your Professional has opted out and I wonder whether you're still waiting for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will do my best to find another Professional to assist you right away. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you. Thank you!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Yes I still require an answer. It seems I have narrowed it down to a mechanincal failure of the keyed ignition switch. There doesn't appear to be a straight forward way To remove this unit from the steering assembly for replacement. It would be great if there were a special procedure for removing the keyed cylinder from the ignition switch for replacement or rebuilding. As it is the whole ignition mechanism is rivetted to the steering column and from our eyes it appears cutting tools are required. What aren't we seeing. If necessary I can photograph the assembly and send pictures. Thanks

Craig

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Walt:

I replied yesterday at 9:10 and haven't heard anything back. I see my status is finished but my question still remains. How do we remove this keyed ignition switch from the steering column for either repair or replacement. I recognize since it is an anti theft device it isn't going to be easy. Also my closest dealer is 600 KM away and most shops shake their heads when they see the Rover and say good luck. The fasteners that clamp this unit to the steering column are only exposed at the top end and are countersunk ito it's housing. They appear to be either rivets or headless bolts. Do these have to be cut or is their a hidden way to release the keyed cylinder?

 

Expert:  Walt-mod replied 2 years ago.
Sometimes, finding the right Professional can take a little longer than expected and we thank you greatly for your understanding. We'll be in touch again shortly.
Expert:  Jim replied 2 years ago.

NEW PROCEDURE FOR REPAIR OF IGNITION KEY INTERLOCK SOLENOID

For vehicles equipped with early production steering column (ANR3752) an interlock solenoid kit is

available which allows replacement of the interlock solenoid without replacing the steering column.

NOTE: Late-design columns must be replaced as an assembly.

It sounds like you have a late design that in order to replace it, you need to replace the whole assembly.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jim:

The vehicle is a 94 county lwb. Not sure whether this qualifies as a late model. Anyway am attaching a picture of the key cylinder side to see whether you think it is a late model or not.key cylinder

Expert:  Jim replied 2 years ago.
Can you send me a closer look at the rivets you are referring to in your original post.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I have since learned that the apparent rivets are in graphicfact bolts with a shear head. When the bolts are tightened to the appropriate torque the head shears off as antitheft protection.

graphic

graphic
Expert:  Jim replied 2 years ago.

Here is a service bulletin, I have found that I would like you to read.

 

No:86/04/00/NAS
*Ref:86/08/01/NAS
Issue:2
Date:07/27/01*

 

Loose Starter Cable Connection

AFFECTED VEHICLE RANGE:

Range Rover (LP) Bosch-Starter Equipped Discovery Series II (LT) ALL Discovery (U) Bosch-Starter Equipped

 

* indicates updated information

SITUATION:

LOOSE ELECTRICAL CONNECTOR AT STARTER MOTOR

Vehicles equipped with a Bosch starter may experience non-start symptoms that suggest that the starter motor is not functioning correctly. These vehicles may fail to crank or intermittently may fail to crank.

The primary electrical connection between the starter and the battery may not be adequately tightened on vehicles exhibiting these symptoms. A low torque condition will not provide a solid electrical connection.

RESOLUTION:

TIGHTEN CABLE CONNECTION TO SPECIFICATION

Whenever a no-crank situation is encountered on Range Rover or Discovery vehicles equipped with a
Bosch starter, the first check should be to tighten the main starter electrical cable connection to the
specified torque.

 

PARTS INFORMATION:

Locally Sourced

^Star lock washer Qty 1

 

WARRANTY CLAIMS:

NOTE: The procedure in this TIB should always be performed before replacing a starter to eliminate the possibility that an improperly tightened solenoid nut is not the root cause of the no-crank problem.

 

86.60.89/27 Time 0.20 hrs. Install star type lock washer and tighten starter cable to specified torque

 

FAULT CODE: S

Normal warranty policy and procedures apply

REPAIR PROCEDURE

TIGHTEN STARTER SOLENOID NUT

NOTE: Replacement of the starter motor is not indicated unless the electrical connection has been checked for proper torque as described below.

 

1.Disconnect battery ground terminal.

 

2.Slacken and remove the battery-lead-to-starter-solenoid securing nut at the starter solenoid.

 

3.Clean all connection surfaces.

 

4.Install a star washer on the solenoid stud.

 

 

graphic

5.Install and tighten the nut to 18 Nm (13 lbf.in.). (Figure 1)

 

6.Clean and install battery ground terminal.

 

7.Start vehicle to verify repair.

 

NOTE: If vehicle fails to crank after the torque repair, replacement of the starter motor may be indicated following standard Workshop Manual and Warranty procedures provided:

 

^Current supply to the starter terminal is normal (12 Vdc).

 

^Other systems are functioning normally.

 

*NOTE: New drive plate balance weights should be fitted whenever a starter motor is replaced on vehicles within the following VIN ranges:

 

Discovery Series II (LT) XA900012 to XA907212 XA200412 to 1A299999 1A700000 to 1A729921 Range Rover 4.0146 (LP) XA410483 to 1A459035

 

Here is the second bulletin that might help.

TECHNICAL INFORMATION

PRIDE IV 5-08

New Key Interlock Service Procedure

No: 57/02/97/NAS

Ref: WSM section 57

Issue: 1

Date: 06/20/97

TIB CIRCULATE Service Mgr Reception Workshop Parts

57/02/97/NAS X X X X

© Rover Group 1997

AFFECTED VEHICLE RANGE:

RANGE ROVER (LP) Up to VA370912 (Early-Design Column)

From VA370913 (Late-Design Column)

SITUATION:

NEW PROCEDURE FOR REPAIR OF IGNITION KEY INTERLOCK SOLENOID

For vehicles equipped with early production steering column (ANR3752) an interlock solenoid kit is

available which allows replacement of the interlock solenoid without replacing the steering column.

NOTE: Late-design columns must be replaced as an assembly. Because replacement

columns may be of the later design it is important to verify the column in the vehicle. See

below for specific information to determine whether a vehicle has an early or late style

column.

RESOLUTION:

DIAGNOSTIC STEPS FOR KEY INTERLOCK SOLENOID

1. Identify steering column type utilizing the identification procedure below.

2. Diagnose symptoms to determine if the fault is mechanical or electrical in nature.

3. Replace solenoid (or column assembly) or repair electrical circuit as necessary.

Refer to the Diagnosis and Repair sections for details.

PARTS INFORMATION:

STC4024 Interlock Solenoid Kit

Locally sourced Loctite
Ò242 ........................................ Thread Locking Compound

NOTE: Late-design steering columns may not be repaired. They must be replaced if a

mechanical fault occurs. See the column identification section for details.

Replacement columns ordered through parts will supersede to the later design.

ANR3752 Early-Design Steering Column ........ (Repair is possible)

ANR6313 Late-Design Steering Column ......... (Repair not permitted)

WARRANTY CLAIMS:

57.40.50..................Time 1.00 hrs.

Replace interlock solenoid

57.40.01..................Time 1.45 hrs.

Replace steering column

COMP CODE:........5D4Z

Normal warranty policy and procedures apply

TECHNICAL INFORMATION

No: 57/02/97/NAS

© Rover Group 1997

PAGE 2 OF 4

REPAIR PROCEDURE:

STEERING COLUMN IDENTIFICATION

NOTE: Vehicles equipped with the late-design column (ANR6313) must use ANR6313 for

repair. A vehicle equipped with the early-design column (ANR3752) may be repaired or

the column may be replaced with the late-design column assembly.

If steering column replacement is necessary and a new-design column is used in a vehicle

previously equipped with the early-design, there are some differences between the two

steering columns which should be noted and reviewed with the customer. The

differences between the two columns are:

  • The tilt adjustment range changes from 4° (ANR3752) to 16° for ANR6313.

 

  • The telescope adjustment range changes from 64 mm (2.5 in.) (ANR3752) to 34 mm

(1.3 in.) for ANR6313.

  • The late-design column features reduced adjustment loads resulting in a different

"feel" to the customer.

1. Telescope the column fully forward and tilt it fully downward.

2. Measure the distance between the bottom edge of the steering wheel and the floor to determine if the

steering column is serviceable. See Figure 1.

  • Measured distance of approximately 400 mm. (15.5 in.): the steering column is NOT

 

serviceable and must be replaced as an assembly. See WSM section 57.

  • Measured distance of approximately 460 mm. (18 in.): the column is serviceable

NOTE: ANR6313. can also be identified by a bar code label on the lock cover plate (near

the ignition lock barrel).

Figure 1

TECHNICAL INFORMATION

No: 57/02/97/NAS

© Rover Group 1997

PAGE 3 OF 4

1. DIAGNOSIS

Symptom: Solenoid damaged or disassembled

1. Proceed to replacement procedure.

Symptom: Key comes out when selector is not in "PARK"

1. Remove steering column shroud to access two pin solenoid connector.

2. Test for power to solenoid as follows:

  • Back-probe two pin connector with test light.
  • Turn key to position II (run).
  • Place selector in neutral.

3. If the test light is lit, the fault is mechanical. Go to the replacement procedure.

4. If the test light is not lit, the fault is electrical. Refer to the ETM for diagnosis.

Symptom: Key will not come out of ignition.

1. Verify that the key sticks.

2. Obtain radio code and disconnect battery negative terminal.

3. Recheck ignition lock operation.

4. If the lock operates normally, the fault is electrical. The solenoid is receiving power. Refer to ETM for

diagnosis.

5. If the lock sticks, the fault is mechanical. Go to the replacement procedure.

SOLENOID REMOVAL

1. Obtain radio code and disconnect battery negative terminal.

2. Remove driver's side closure panel (six screws) .

3. Remove instrument pack trim (four screws).

4. Remove steering column shroud (six screws).

5. Remove the three bolts securing column tilt lever assembly

to column. See Figure 2, Ref. 3.

6. Remove lever and plastic release plunger from column. See

Figure 2, Ref. 4.

7. Disconnect and unclip ignition switch leads.

8. Remove two screws securing switch to column. See Figure

2, Ref. 7.

9. Remove switch

10. Remove interlocking cam. Note the orientation of the cam.

See Figure 4.

11. Disconnect interlock solenoid lead.

12. Remove two painted screws securing solenoid to column.

13. Remove solenoid.

CAUTION: Do not turn the slotted head on

the interlock solenoid plunger. The overall length

of the interlock solenoid plunger has been preset

at the factory and must never be altered.

Changing this setting will result in malfunction of

the solenoid. Turning the plunger will also defeat

the thread-locking compound used in

manufacture, causing the plunger adjustment

(Figure 3) to change in service.

Figure 3

Figure 2

TECHNICAL INFORMATION

No: 57/02/97/NAS

© Rover Group 1997

PAGE 4 OF 4

SOLENOID INSTALLATION

1. Position interlock solenoid on steering column.

2. Install two solenoid screws.

3. Connect interlock solenoid leads.

4. Install interlock cam, being careful to install in the same

position as before. See Figure 4.

5. Position ignition switch on steering column.

6. Apply thread-locker (LoctiteÒ242) and install two screws

securing the switch to the column.

7. Connect and clip ignition switch leads.

8. Install plastic release plunger in column and fit steering

column tilt lever assembly.

9. Install steering column shroud.

10. Install instrument pack trim (four screws).

11. Install driver's side closure panel (six screws).

12. Connect battery negative lead.

13. Test ignition interlock:

  • Confirm that the key CAN NOT be removed when the transmission selector lever is NOT in the

PARK position.

  • Confirm that the key CAN be removed when the selector lever is in the PARK position.

14. Reset windows and sunroof and radio code. Synchronize remotes.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jim:

Of course when the ignition switch went fully clockwise and stayed there without engaging the starter and and without springing back to the run position one always hopes for a simple solution like loose battery cables, insufficiently charged battery or loose starter connection. The starter connection was checked twice, once when the key failed and a second time when we hooked up the remote starter switch. No faults in the electrical system, the rover fired up instantly when we hit the remote starter switch. We ran it 5 km to our garage. The engine ran with all electrical systems for twenty minutes before we tried to shut it down. With the key turned to the off position the engine and all electrical kept running, disconnected the negative terminal at the battery, engine kept runnnig, disconnected the alternator-engine kept running. Finally stopped when we disconnected the positive battery cable also.

Wished it were as simple as a replaceable solenoid that can be done in place but everything we have done and written in all these threads points to the key cylinder failure:

1. the key turns fully clockwise and stops there without springing back the 1/8 turn to the run position. It initially freed the steering column lock and the park brake lock.

2. When the key turned to the off position it wouldn't shut anthing down or turn off the power. The battery had to be disconnected.

3. With the battery disconnected, foot on the brake, key in any position the transmission shift is locked in park position.

4. With no key in the ignition, battery reconnected all electrical is functioning, foot on the brake and am able to fully shift the transmission selector. Key does not make any difference and it still will not engage the starter. To us all this points to a mechanical failure of the keyed ignition cylinder.

 

I appreciate the bulletins with the test procedures but everything comes back to failure of the keyed cylinder. My Rover doesn't have a tilt steering wheel although I realize the test procedures would be similar. The only numbers that I can find on the lignition unit is N3 C50011 These numbers can partially be seen between the 2 bolts,in the first of the 2 pictures that I sent youat 6pm on April 9. Secondly the word Valeo can be found on the outer casting along side the keyed cylinder and can be seen in the

picture sent on Apr 9 at 12:10

 

The fact that the key will not turn off the electrical or the engine indicates a mechanical faliure of the keyed ignition cylinder. All the electrical is fully functional and as a result we don't accept that it is a failure of the key interlock solenoid. So it seems like we're headed in two different directions and we're still faced with removing the ignition unit from the steering column and finding the best way to do that.

Craig

 

Expert:  Jim replied 2 years ago.
I am going to re open this question back to the other techs here at just answers in hopes one of them may be able to help you further on this problem. Don't respond to this post or it will lock me into this question and the other techs will not be able to respond. Thank You using Just Answers.
Expert:  Walt-mod replied 2 years ago.
Hi, I'm a moderator for this topic. Your Professional has opted out and I wonder whether you're still waiting for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will do my best to find another Professional to assist you right away. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you. Thank you!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Let's cancel. The mechanic that I'm working with(50 years experience on everything mechanical) is confident that it is a tumbler failure within the keyed cylinder and has figured a way to remove the ignition unit from the steering column once the replacement parts arrive.

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