How JustAnswer Works:

  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.

Ask Dale Stockstill Your Own Question

Dale Stockstill
Dale Stockstill, Automotive Diagnostic Technician
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 1238
Experience:  40 years of Automotive Technical Knowledge, Teacher, Diagnostic Specialist
19741685
Type Your Car Question Here...
Dale Stockstill is online now
A new question is answered every 9 seconds

1992 ECONOLINE: CARB..RESTART..WONT START..IT COOL FOR AN HOUR OR TWO

Customer Question

I HAVE A 1992 ECONOLINE 250 THAT HAS A 1979 VINTAGE 460 ENGINE WITH EDELBROCK CARB & CARTER ELEC FUEL PUMP. IT STARTS WELL WHEN COLD & RUNS WELL, BUT MANY TIMES WHEN I TRY TO RESTART IT WHEN HOT... IT WON'T START BUT TURNS OVER WELL, & IF I LET IT COOL FOR AN HOUR OR TWO IT STARTS WELL AGAIN. I DID CHANGE THE ELECTRONIC IGNITION WITH ONE I HAD FROM A PREVIOUS ECONOLINE THAT WAS WORKING WHEN I SCRAPED IT. I'VE TRIED SLIGHTLY TURNING THE STEERING COLUMN IGNITION SWITCH IN BOTH DIRECTIONS TO SEE IF IT HAS A DEAD SPOT BUT IT 'SEEMS' OK ALTHOUGH A FEW TIMES THAT I TRIED IT HOT IT WOULDN'T START UNTIL I RELEASED THE KEY FROM THE START POSITION BUT THAT CHARACTERISTIC DOESN'T SEEM TO BE CONSISTANT. WHAT SYSTEM IS BEING AFFECTED BY THE HOTTER CONDITION....??
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Car
Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 3 years ago.

Hello,

 

My name is Dale.

 

The symptom you are describing is called a "HOT SOAK NO START" condition. Usually it is caused by either floats in the carburetor that have become saturated with fuel (Heavy) and therefore the fuel level is to high and it causes the carburetor to percolate when you shut it down hot. Remember that a hot engine always gets hotter when you shut it off hot because the cooling is gone. So the under hood temperature goes way up before it cools down.

 

Try this. Get it good and hot ( take it out a run it fairly hard until it good and hot) with A/C on, shut her down and let sit for about 5-10 minutes, raise the hood and remove the air cleaner. Take a flash light and shine it down the bores of the carb and see if you can see a mist of fuel or a bubbling over (Percolating) of the fuel out the discharge nozzles in the bores. If you can then you have found the problem and it is internal in the carburetor itself. NOTE: ETHANOL BLENED FUEL MAKES THIS CONDITION WORSE.

 

Check it out and let me know.

Have a Blessed & Productive Day !

Sincerely,

Dale

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
THANKS DALE...I'LL TRY THAT WEDNESDAY OR SUNDAY AND LET YOU KNOW. RICK
Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 3 years ago.

Very well but the question will go dormant and close before Sunday.

Sincerely,

Dale

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
OK THEN.... I'LL TRY TO GET TO IT WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. THANKS !
Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 3 years ago.

Thanks for replying. I will just wait to see what you find.

Sincerely,

Dale

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

HI DALE... I DID AS YOU SAID, BUT DID NOT SEE 'A MIST OR A BUBBLING OVER' AT ABOUT 7 MINUTES AFTER A 30 MINUTE RUN BUT I STILL FEEL THAT YOUR ASSESSMENT IS PLAUSABLE. I PURPOSELY FLOODED IT COLD AND IT WOULDNT START. I LEFT IT SIT FOR ABOUT 90 MINUTES AND IT STARTED, THOUGH IT DID CHUGG A BIT AT FIRST. AND I FEEL SOME OF THE OTHER POSSIBLE CAUSSES HAVE BEEN 'NEARLY' ELIMINATED & YOU DIDN'T MENTION ANY OTHER SYSTEMS AS SUSPECTS EITHER.

SO, I AM TRUSTING AND ACCEPTING YOUR ANSWER AS TO A LIKELY CAUSE, AND WE'LL KNOW FOR SURE ONCE I APPLY A REMEDY. WHICH BEGS THE SUBSEQUENT QUESTION; IF IT IS, AS YOU SAY, A BUBBLING OVER OR PERCULATING.... WHAT IS THE TYPICAL REMEDY?

THANKS AGAIN,

RICK.

Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 3 years ago.

Thanks Rick,

 

For update. I am a little puzzled at this point. Drop the float level 1/16" on both primary a secondaries and see if the problem goes away. You can always move it up again. I have to be real honest here and tell you that this is VERY Common Complaint on the Edelbrock carburetors. NOTE: THEY MAY LOOK LIKE A HOLLEY BUT THEY ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE ENGINEERING THAT HOLLEY HAS HAD OVER THE YEARS.

 

Also, I would go through the drill of getting it to not start Hot and immediately check for spark by pulling a plug wire and taking a new spark plug, ground the shell where the threads are and have someone crank it over just to see if you are loosing spark or not.

 

This question has not been accepted as of this post.

 

Sincerely,

Dale

PS- I guess what I am saying is if you feel that the carburetor (Fuel/Flooding) is not the problem then we need to look at the possiblity of a ignition failure that shows up under a Hot Soak Condition. Did you try the WIDE OPEN THROTTLE when it does its thing? If it goes ahead and starts that is absolute proof of a Fuel/Flooding condition.

Dale Stockstill, Automotive Diagnostic Technician
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 1238
Experience: 40 years of Automotive Technical Knowledge, Teacher, Diagnostic Specialist
Dale Stockstill and 13 other Car Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

HI DALE..... I DROVE IT AGAIN THIS EVENING AND STOPPED BY FAMILY FOR A VISIT. AND HOUR LATER IT WOULDN'T START. I TRIED A TOUCH OF THROTTLE BUT NO CHANGE..... I THEN HELD THE THROTTLE TO THE FLOOR AND CRANKED IT FOR 35 - 40 SECONDS, ... NO GO. SO I LEFT IT FOR ANOTHER HOUR PLUS AND THEN TRIED IT. NO START. I TRIED A SECOND TIME AND GOT A SPUTTER, A SLIGHT POP, AND THEN AWAY SHE WENT. ALL ALONG THROUGH THESE INCIDENTS THERE IS A STRONG SMELL OF FUEL. SO FLODDIND OF SOME SORT SEEM PREVELENT... SO WE'LL TRY A FLOAT ADJUST AND SEE IF WE CAN GET SOME POSITIVE RESULTS. I HOPE YOU GET THIS MESSAGE. I WANT YOU TO RECEIVE YOUR DUE, SO RATHER THAN CLICK REPLY I WILL CLICK ACCEPT...

BUT PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU ALSO GET THIS REPLY TO EXPERT MESSAGE INCLUDED WITH MY ACCEPT ANSWER SELECTION.

THANKS AGAIN DALE..... RICK.

Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 3 years ago.

Well Rick, Thanks for accepting my answers. We are back to the old spark or fuel question. I think it is fuel but you can always be ready with an extra spark plug and just pull a spark plug wire when it does it and ground the outer shell. Look for a nice bright blue spark NOT RED. I have been thinking about your engine. If it works out to be a fuel related problem (Overheated Carburetor) you might want to look around for a heat seperator that would go between the intake and the base of the carburetor. Usually they are made of bakelite and are 1/2" to 3/4" thick. Ofcourse you will have to make sure you have enough hood clearance to raise the carburetor up.

So that's about all I can do without being there to diagnose it myself. If you would like to contact me directly in the future, just go to: http://www.justanswer.com/profile.aspx?PF=19741685&FID=0

You can save this address or bookmark it into you computer for future reference. Please use my name "Dale" in the question line so the question will come directly to me.

I will be watching for any additional posts you make to this question. I really would like to know what resolves the issue for other guys that are running into the same problem.

Sincerely,

Dale

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

THANKS AGAIN DALE... I'LL LET YOU KNOW HOW IT TURNS OUT. THE SHOP THAT'S GOING TO ADJUST THE CARB 'AGAIN' AND THIS TIME INCLUDING ADJUSTING THE FLOATES IF NECESSARY SHOULD HAVE IT DONE MONDAY.

I DO HAVE ANOTHER THOUGHT THOUGH..... COULD THIS CONDITION ALSO BE CAUSED BY OR 'INTENSIFIED 'BY THE CARTER ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP. AND IF SO, DO YOU THINK A "TOGGLE SWITCH" SHUT DOWN OF THE FUEL PUMP 3,5, OR 7 SECONDS BEFORE THE IGNITION SWITCH WOULD BE BENEFICIAL.

 

***************YOUR FIRST ASSESSMENT IS THE LIKELY CAUSE - FROM MY 'VANTAGE POINT'.

I'VE PASTED YOUR LINK AND WILL REQUEST YOU AGAIN....... (if You're right, of course)

HAVE A GOOD, GOOD DAY! RICK.

Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 3 years ago.

Well Rick,

I have used a Carter Rotary Vane pump before and they do generate a MASSIVE amount of Volume & Pressure. I have used them in racing cars (Circle Track) where filling the fuel chamber in the carburetor had to be done quickly. You could try a switch just to see if it made any difference. That would clarify (FOR SURE) that it is flooding or percolating over. Again this is a very common complaint with the Edelbrock Copy Cat carburetors. If these things you are going to change (WHICH YOU SHOULD DO 1 AT A TIME SO YOU KNOW WHAT CHANGED) do not resolve the issue I would consider a Heat Seperator Plate under the carburetor or Just bite the bullet and put a genuine Holley carburetor on it and forget it. This is one of the reasons why so many techs are really down on the Edlebrock Carburetors. The look shinny and cool but they DO NOT FUNCTION and are not as easilt adjustable as a Holley. It is sort of like the wave of MSD distributors. I see many guys going back to the original distributors. The beef them up of course but there are some things that are just real hard to improve on and the engineers at the manufacturers have and have had the resources to time test theirs systems long before they are placed out in the market. Some of the technolgy comes from racing the cars and then learning what the component does under extreme donditions. The sme thing applies in general to factory vs. after market radios.

 

These are my thoughts at thispoint but I want you to keep me advised whether this question times out or you have to start a new question.

Sincerely,

Dale

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

GOOD DAY DALE.. THE VAN WENT INTO THE SHOP MONDAY AND FIRST WE CHECKED FOR SPARK DURING FAILURE AND NONE WAS FOUND. THE TECH WORKING ON IT FOUND THAT THE POWER TO THE COIL WAS NOT THERE (OR WAS LOWER THAN IT SHOULD BE ?) WE TRIED A COUPLE GOOD USED COILS BUT THE SYMPTOMS STAYED THE SAME. WITH THE KEY ON IGNITION AND THE FUEL PUMP RUNNING, WHEN THE COILS WERE CONNECTED THE PUMP SOUNDED A BIT SLOWER - I'M NOT SURE IF THAT WOULD BE 'NORMAL'

....SO IT SEEMS TO BE SPARK RELATED AND NOT FUEL. THERE IS A REMOTE START ON THE UNIT THAT I'VE NEVER USED AND THERE MAY BE AN ANTI THEFT SYSTEM AS WELL BUT THAT, I'M NOT CERTAIN OF BUT THE FELLA THAT DID IT UP ORIGINALLY ADDED JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING "GADGET WISE"... GUAGES, COMPASS, RADAR, AND SO ON.

I DON'T KNOW THE ROUTING SYSTEM FOR BRINGING POWER TO THE COIL AND I HOPE THIS SHOP CAN FIGURE IT OUT BEFORE TOO MANY HOURS ADD UP. IF YOU HAVE SOME FURTHER THOUGHTS NOW THAT WE (THEY) HAVE ASSESSED A PROBLEM WITH SPARK, I WELCOME YOUR INPUT. I WILL RESPECT YOUR DUE.

THANKS..... RICK.

Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 3 years ago.

Thanks for the update Rick. Any thing that can pull the power away from the ignition is suspect. My GUESS and it is just a guess is the Electronic control Module is internally ( Transistors inside short out) and can cause this very problem. I would imagine it has Duraspark II on it. You have changed the distributor but have you changed the control module?? The slightly voltage dropping a bit with the key on is normal. The power has to come from the same souce and if other components in the system are on a small voltage drop is normal and should not affect the engine starting cold or hot.

 

I will have to say that this Van has really put you through the mill. Sometimes it is best to take it to a shop where they can test it when it is in the NO Start mode. I wish you the Best with the diagnosis. Be sure and let me know what they find if you have the time.

Sincerely,

Dale

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

THANKS DALE.. I DID SWAP THE IGNITION MODULE EARLY ON WITH ANOTHER USED (& SHOULD BE GOOD) ELECTRONIC IGNITION MODULE. I HAVE ANOTHER ONE I COULD TRY THAT'S FROM A RECENT HIGH PERFORMANCE CHANGE UP THAT I GOT FROM A FRIEND. IT'S A MOTORCRAFT MODULE WITH "BLUE STRIP" ON THE AREA WHERE THE WIRES COME OUT OF THE RESIN ENCASED BACK... **NOTE; I DID NOT CHANGE THE DISTRIBUTOR. IN YOUR REPLY YOU USED THE TERM "ELECTRONIC CONTROL MODULE"... IS THAT THE SAME AS THE ELECTRONIC IGNITION MODULE THAT I HAVE BEEN CALLING IT - A METAL BOX THAT HAS 6 WIRES COMMING OUT OF THE RESIN BACK ABOUT 6 INCHES LONG AND 2 PLUG IN CONNECTORS WITH TWO CONTACTS IN ONE PLUG IN AND 4 CONTACTS IN THE OTHER - OR DO YOU MEAN SOMETHING ELSE ?

THE DROP IN VOLTAGE WOULD HAPPEN WHEN WE PLUGGED IN THE COIL - WHILE THE KEY WAS 'ON' AND THE CARTER PUMP WAS RUNNING AS IT SHOULD WHEN THE KEY IS ON....

IT IS AT A 'SHOP' CALLED WEST MOUNTAIN AUTOMOTIVE HERE IN EDMONTON ALBERTA... THEY'VE ADJUSTED TWO CARBS FOR ME IN THE PAST...

THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR INTEREST AND INPUT.... RICK.

Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 3 years ago.

OK Rick,

Thanks for the update. If you DID not swap out the distributor look for the magnetic pick module up in the distributor to be bad. Sometime they will open when hot. Yes the ECU is the same as the Electronic Control Module. Actually the module is inside the distributor itself. If it is the magnetic pickup module is bad they will get an open circuit on one or more of the wires back to the ECU when it's hot and not when it is cold. I am sure West Mountain Automotive will do you a good job of isolating the problem but I will continue to advise you as needed. Let me know when you get the call that say " We need to replace _________ ! You do not want to be rude but that last thing you need right now is a PARTS REPLACER. That is what we call them in the industry. These folks just start replacing things IN HOPES of stumbling on to the right burned out component. What you need is a GOOD AUTOMOTIVE DIAGNOSTICIAN that can isolate and then repair the problem. It may take some parts but it also could be a wiring harness problem.

 

Hang in there Rick and let me know.

Sincerely,

Dale

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

THANKS AGAIN DALE.. I DO HAVE AN EXTRA DISTRIBUTOR FROM A PREVIOUS 460 SO IF THE INTERNAL PIECE CAN BE SWAPPED FAIRLY EASILY WE COULD GIVE THAT A TRY.

AS OF 4PM MTN TIME TUESDAY, THE TECH / OWNER OF THE SHOP HAS NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO ISOLATE THE PROBLEM - I THINK PARTLY DUE TO THE FACT THAT HE HAS OTHER THINGS TO CONTEND WITH AND WHEN HE LEAVES IT FOR A WHILE TO DO SOMETHING ELSE AND THEN COMES BACK TO IT, IT'S COOL ENOUGH TO WORK. HE TELLS ME THAT HE CAN RUN IT IDLING FOR ABOUT 15 MINUTES AND THE NO SPARK CONDITION SHOW UP.....

I HOPE THE DAY IS BEING GOOD TO YOU...THANKS, RICK.

Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 3 years ago.

No Problem Rick,

Keep me advised.

Dale

Dale Stockstill, Automotive Diagnostic Technician
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 1238
Experience: 40 years of Automotive Technical Knowledge, Teacher, Diagnostic Specialist
Dale Stockstill and 13 other Car Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

GOOD DAY DALE... WELL IT TURNED OUT TO BE THE PICK-UP MODULE - STATOR , IN THE DISTRIBUTOR.... THE SHOP SWAPPED IN THE USED ONE I HAD AND IT'S BEEN STARTING EVER SINCE. I TOOK IT FOR A RUN WITH MY 5,000 LB TRAVEL TRAILER ON SUNDAY AND IT RAN WELL. GOOD OPERATING TEMP IN THE LOW NORMAL RANGE AND THE OIL PRESSURE RUNS AT ABOUT 25PSI. ON THE AFTER MARKET GUAGE AND WITHIN NORMAL ON THE STOCK GUAGE.

IT HAS A GEAR VENDORS OVERDRIVE UNIT ON IT WHICH REALLY SLOWS DOWN THE ENGINE. ( IT DOESN'T HAVE A TACH THOUGH) IT HAS BEEN PUFFING A FAIR BIT OF BLUE UPON STARTING AND FROM WHAT I KNOW, THAT'S USUALLY VALVE SEALS. THE DOWN SIDE IS THAT IT SEEMED TO USE CLOSE TO A LITRE OF OIL ON MY 60 MILE RUN AT 65 MPH. SO I AM A BIT LEARY OF USING IT ON MY 600 MILE ROUND TRIP COMMING UP. IS THERE ANY TYPE OF CONDITIONER THAT COULD HELP WITH THE OIL CONSUMPTION IF IT'S THE VALVE SEALS.

I WANT TO ADD A BONUS FOR YOU, I HOPE THERE IS THAT OPTION ONCE I ACCEPT YOUR ANSWER AGAIN.... I GUESS I'LL FIND OUT IN A MOMENT.. THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR ADVICE DALE & HAVE A GREAT WEEK. RICK.

Expert:  Dale Stockstill replied 2 years ago.

Well Congratulations Rick. We finally nailed the little bugger. As far as using oil, the There is no magic additive (Wish there was sometimes) that is going to really help at all. What you are describing is worn piston rings and cylinders. I sure the valve seals are leaking some also. If it is just blowing blue smoke at an idle, that is valve stem seals ( which can be replaced fairly easily) but if you are going down the road at say 60 mph, let off the throttle down to say 45 an then step on it and a bunch of blue smoke comes out, that is oil control rings. I am sure you know this is a major repair or engine replacement.

Best of Luck. There is a Bonus Section on our accept page.

Sincerely,

Dale

PS You can use 40 weight motor oil temporarily and it will slow down the oil burning but nothing else is going to help I do not care what it says on the can.

JustAnswer in the News:

 
 
 
Ask-a-doc Web sites: If you've got a quick question, you can try to get an answer from sites that say they have various specialists on hand to give quick answers... Justanswer.com.
JustAnswer.com...has seen a spike since October in legal questions from readers about layoffs, unemployment and severance.
Web sites like justanswer.com/legal
...leave nothing to chance.
Traffic on JustAnswer rose 14 percent...and had nearly 400,000 page views in 30 days...inquiries related to stress, high blood pressure, drinking and heart pain jumped 33 percent.
Tory Johnson, GMA Workplace Contributor, discusses work-from-home jobs, such as JustAnswer in which verified Experts answer people’s questions.
I will tell you that...the things you have to go through to be an Expert are quite rigorous.
 
 
 

What Customers are Saying:

 
 
 
  • I would (and have) recommend your site to others I was quite satisfied with the quality of the information received, the professional with whom I interacted, and the quick response time. Thanks, and be sure that I'll be back whenever I need a question answered in a hurry. Stephanie P Elm City, NC
< Last | Next >
  • I would (and have) recommend your site to others I was quite satisfied with the quality of the information received, the professional with whom I interacted, and the quick response time. Thanks, and be sure that I'll be back whenever I need a question answered in a hurry. Stephanie P Elm City, NC
  • used your service this weekend with "Trecers" help. thank you ,thank you, thank you. replaced an A/C fan motor. Local Auto Zone had part. $15.00 "tracer" fee and $40.00 for parts, I saved several hundreds of dollers at a shop. i will recommend you and use you in the future. David L. Richmond, TX
  • 9 dollars, 2 hours of my time, and I drove away. Your diagnosis was right on the mark. Thank you so much. Phil Marysville, CA
  • Lurch. Thank you very much. I had real doubts about this website but your promptness of response, quick followup and to the point answer with picture was incredible. Charles Walnut Creek, CA
  • As a single woman, I really appreciate an excellent and affordable opinion.
    Thank you Geordie, I will not hesitate to contact justanswer in the future!
    Sue Charleston, WV
  • Another great insight to what may be the problem. I will have my mechanic take a look at it tomorrow. Thanks again, Frank...you do indeed know your stuff. Jim Castleberry, FL
  • Excellent reply, and also very quick. Really sounds like the Expert knows what he is talking about. I will be back to use your service when I need more help with my RV. Dutch USA
 
 
 

Meet The Experts:

 
 
 
  • Chris (aka-Moose)

    Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    846
    16 years of experience
< Last | Next >
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/MU/muddyford/2012-6-13_1204_1.64x64.png Chris (aka-Moose)'s Avatar

    Chris (aka-Moose)

    Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    846
    16 years of experience
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/TE/TedG/2012-6-15_14759_avaLarge.64x64.jpg Ted G.'s Avatar

    Ted G.

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    1596
    20 years auto repair experience, ASE Master Tech, Mechanical Failure consultant, Expert Witness
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/joecamel90/2008-11-13_03615_head_shot.jpg George H.'s Avatar

    George H.

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    1311
    ASE Master Tech 15+ yrs, AAS Automotive Technology, Factory trained Asian specialist
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/AM/amedee/2013-10-24_23656_Amedee1.64x64.jpg Amedee's Avatar

    Amedee

    ASE Master Tech

    Satisfied Customers:

    2367
    ASE Master Tech advanced level specialist
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/SU/supermechanic/2013-8-23_03546_500.64x64.jpg Jerry's Avatar

    Jerry

    Master Mechanic

    Satisfied Customers:

    1906
    ASE master, 30+ years. All makes and models. Trouble shooter, shop forman, service manager
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/CR/crzydrvr00/2013-11-3_12123_246347.64x64.jpg Richard's Avatar

    Richard

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    942
    12 years Ford Lincoln/Mercury Jaguar dealership as a technician and shop foreman reparing all makes
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/ST/Steve7654/2012-6-5_215929_japic800x660.64x64.jpg Steve's Avatar

    Steve

    Auto Service Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    1980
    25+ yrs experience as a professional working technician; ASE L1 master technician