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Virtual Wrench (L J)
Virtual Wrench (L J), Master Mechanic
Category: Car
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Experience:  35 years/Master Tech. Foreign and Domestic
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1993 LeSabre: it starts and stalls..security light is not flashing.

Resolved Question:

Have a 1993 LeSabre with a 3.8 engine. When you try to start it, it starts and stalls. The security light is not flashing. It will eventually start and then it runs great. We have already replaced the ignition tumbler and key with GM parts. We also changed the crank sensor. The 'check engine' light is not on but it has Code 58 "Anti-theft system" stored as a current code. I am using dial up internet service. So if you answer this for me, be patient.
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Car
Expert:  Virtual Wrench (L J) replied 3 years ago.

Hello and welcome back,

 

I will try to assist you here. Actually this sounds like it could be a fuel issue here. Given the past history on all of these vehicles, It is VERY common for the fuel pump to be the fault. We have replaced literally hundreds of these with the exact same symptoms that you have described. It has an electric pump in the gas tank and it spins real fast to make the required pressure. After they get old they start spinning slower sometimes and then not at other times, then it starts acting up just like this. Do you know if and when the pump has ever been replaced?

 

How many miles are on it?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Sorry for the delay in responding. I don't know if the pump has every been replaced. The car has about 60,000 miles. If the pump is old, it may not have enough pressure to start, but, when I clear the PCM codes, the only code that comes back on is #58 "Anti Theft System". If it is the fuel pump, I would not expect to see ANY codes from the PCM. I forgot to tell you that I also relearned the system after the tumbler was changed. So that is not an issue. ??
Expert:  Virtual Wrench (L J) replied 3 years ago.

Thanks, XXXXX XXXXX with the delay.

 

If you can get a can of carb cleaner spray and spray a shot into the air intake hose to the engine when it won't start or when it dies, if it runs on that, then by all means replace the pump. I can't even begin to count how many fuel pumps we have replaced on this type vehicle that have the same exact symptoms you are having...as far as the codes, yes it will not set a code for the fuel pump and the code you are seeing now has to do with when you did the relearn. My money is on the fuel pump being the trouble causer here.

 

 

If you have further questions feel free to reply.Please remember to click on accept so i receive credit for assisting you. Even if you have a subscription, you will NOT be charged again.You can always ask follow up questions right here for no extra charge even after you click on accept. By accepting, it shows me that you appreciate my time, expertise and help.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Well, I'm not going to accept your answer yet. But, after I check the fuel pressure, I will let you know. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just want to check it out first.
Expert:  Virtual Wrench (L J) replied 3 years ago.

Hi,

 

No problem, just keep in mind that you can still ask me as much as you like even after you accept my help so far. It just shows me that you appreciate my helping you. It's up to you though :-)

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Checked the fuel pressure. Key on, engine off 46 - 47 psi. Any other ideas?
Expert:  Virtual Wrench (L J) replied 3 years ago.

Hi,

 

Was it in a no-start condition when tested?

 

Will it start and run for a couple seconds if you spray an alternative fuel (like carb cleaner spray) into the air intake to the engine?

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Checked fuel pressure, key on engine off. Has 46 - 47 psi. I think that rules out the fuel pump.
Expert:  Virtual Wrench (L J) replied 3 years ago.

Hi,

 

Get a noid light from a parts store and unplug one of the injectors and plug the light into the connector and see if it flashes when trying to start it. This will tell you if the injectors are being triggered to open and close.

 

graphic

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Checked that - injectors are working.
Expert:  Virtual Wrench (L J) replied 3 years ago.

Hi,

 

Good spark at the spark plugs at the time of a no-start?

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Good spark, good fuel. It starts, runs a second or two, stalls. Scanned the PCM - DTC 58 comes up. My scanner does not list anything for '58'.I'm starting to think it could be the PCM. Any thoughts?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Yes
Expert:  Virtual Wrench (L J) replied 3 years ago.

Thanks,

 

I would have to agree. Below is the trouble tree for that code. Keep in mind when it says "does engine crank" it refers to does the starter engage. NOT "does the engine start".

 

graphicgraphic

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Okay, thanks for the information. I'll be in touch.
Expert:  Virtual Wrench (L J) replied 3 years ago.

Sounds good.

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
SUCCESS! The problem was the Theft Deterrent (sp) Module. We got a module from the junk yard. Plugged it in - and it started right up. This module is located behind the speaker in the right side dash. Stupid! But, we were able to finally diagnose this problem using the chart you sent for Code #58. Thank you for sticking with this until the problem was resolved.
Expert:  Virtual Wrench (L J) replied 3 years ago.

Good Job.

 

I commend you for your determination!

 

 

Virtual Wrench (L J), Master Mechanic
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 13458
Experience: 35 years/Master Tech. Foreign and Domestic
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Virtual Wrench (L J)
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