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Tim's Auto Repair
Tim's Auto Repair, Mechanic
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 12800
Experience:  Have owned a repair shop for 25 yrs.
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91 olds 88 royale: v6..sputters..dies..electrical, where are sensors i

Resolved Question:

have a 91 olds 88 royale v6, 3800. will idle and run perfectly for a couple of minutes than it sputters and dies. if electrical, where are sensors i should check and likewise fuel sensors??? ideas???
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Car
Expert:  Tim's Auto Repair replied 3 years ago.
Chat Conversation Started
tims auto repair :

does it only do this when the engine is warm?

tims auto repair :

please explain

Customer :

no it dies after only a couple 5 minutes or so

tims auto repair :

ok

tims auto repair :

does the engine light stay on?if so.can you give me the computer codes?

Customer :

service engine soon light comes on how do i get computer codes?

tims auto repair :

is it on when the engine is running?

Customer :

yes

tims auto repair :

ok

Customer :

i should maybe tell you that this car has been sitting in a barn for 6 or 7 years, has only 65000 original miles

tims auto repair :

does it run good for 5min...then die as if you turn off the key?

tims auto repair :

ok

tims auto repair :

how long before it will restart?

Customer :

almost. what i noticed is a vaccum type sound as if it was starved for air and or fuel

Customer :

not sure now because it started sucking juice, so id let it sit for a few minutes to restart

tims auto repair :

but

tims auto repair :

it does run well for the 5min though..as if nothing is wrong?

Customer :

absolutely

tims auto repair :

ok

tims auto repair :

i think your problem isthe crank sensor

Customer :

ok where do i find that

tims auto repair :

this is located near the crank pulley

tims auto repair :



















Reading Diagnostic Trouble Codes




[IMAGE][SRC][/SRC][ALT][/ALT][WIDTH]176[/WIDTH][HEIGHT]100[/HEIGHT][STYLE][/STYLE][/IMAGE]

ALDL Connector




The ECM incorporates a diagnostic program which, when activated, will flash codes stored in the trouble code memory through the "CHECK ENGINE" lamp. A diagnostic connector, located under the instrument panel, is used to activate the self-diagnosis system. The connector,allows access to system circuits and contains a test terminal which, when grounded with the ignition on and engine stopped, causes stored trouble codes to be flashed on the "CHECK ENGINE" lamp.

When the diagnostic terminal is grounded (jumper terminal "A" to "B") with the ignition on and engine stopped, codes are displayed in numerical order, always starting with Code 12 which indicates that the self-diagnosis system is operating properly. Trouble codes, are displayed in the following manner: Code 12 is displayed by one flash, a short pause, then two flashes and a longer pause. Code 12 will be displayed 3 times in this manner, then any additional codes stored will be displayed 3 times each in a similar manner until all codes have been displayed. Once all codes have been displayed. The process will be repeated as long as the test terminal remains grounded. DO NOT ground the diagnostic terminal until the ignition is "ON" and engine is "OFF" (not running). After trouble codes have been noted, the ground wire should be removed from the test lead and the engine should be started. When the engine is started and there are no other codes except Code 12, the "CHECK ENGINE" light should go out after approximately 5.0 seconds, indicating that the ECM has not detected a malfunction. However, if the ECM detects a current malfunction, the "CHECK ENGINE" lamp will remain illuminated while the engine is running. A trouble code indicates a possible system malfunction. If a trouble code can be obtained, even if the "CHECK ENGINE" lamp is "OFF" when the engine is running, a "SYSTEM PERFORMANCE CHECK" should be performed and the indicated circuit should be inspected.

Use the appropriate diagnostic charts if trouble codes can be obtained with the "CHECK ENGINE" lamp "OFF." A System Performance Check and a thorough physical inspection of the circuit involved should be carried out if any of these codes are evident. Repair as necessary.

Removing battery voltage to ECM terminal "R" for a period of 10 seconds will clear all stored trouble codes. This usually can be accomplished by removing the ECM fuse, if equipped, from the fuse block. In some cases it may be easier to disconnect the negative battery terminal. However, doing so will result in deprogrammed ETR radios, electronic clocks and Trip Computers.

tims auto repair :

Please ACCEPT my answer so I can get credit for my work.i don't receive commission unless you do ..I'm not always going to be giving you good news,so please don't let this stand in the way of you accepting my answer.it does not cost you more money.we will still be able to communicate.. Bonuses and positive feedback are appreciated!if you are not satisfied with my answer,please do not leave bad feed back,i will gladly opt out and let another expert handle the question.PLEASE ASK IF YOU NEED MORE HELP

Tim's Auto Repair, Mechanic
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 12800
Experience: Have owned a repair shop for 25 yrs.
Tim's Auto Repair and 11 other Car Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  Tim's Auto Repair replied 3 years ago.
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Expert:  Tim's Auto Repair replied 3 years ago.

Please ACCEPT my answer so I can get credit for my work.i don't receive commission unless you do ..I'm not always going to be giving you good news,so please don't let this stand in the way of you accepting my answer.it does not cost you more money.we will still be able to communicate.. Bonuses and positive feedback are appreciated!if you are not satisfied with my answer,please do not leave bad feed back,i will gladly opt out and let another expert handle the question.PLEASE ASK IF YOU NEED MORE HELP

 

Reading Diagnostic Trouble Codes

 

ALDL Connector

The ECM incorporates a diagnostic program which, when activated, will flash codes stored in the trouble code memory through the "CHECK ENGINE" lamp. A diagnostic connector, located under the instrument panel, is used to activate the self-diagnosis system. The connector,allows access to system circuits and contains a test terminal which, when grounded with the ignition on and engine stopped, causes stored trouble codes to be flashed on the "CHECK ENGINE" lamp.

When the diagnostic terminal is grounded (jumper terminal "A" to "B") with the ignition on and engine stopped, codes are displayed in numerical order, always starting with Code 12 which indicates that the self-diagnosis system is operating properly. Trouble codes, are displayed in the following manner: Code 12 is displayed by one flash, a short pause, then two flashes and a longer pause. Code 12 will be displayed 3 times in this manner, then any additional codes stored will be displayed 3 times each in a similar manner until all codes have been displayed. Once all codes have been displayed. The process will be repeated as long as the test terminal remains grounded. DO NOT ground the diagnostic terminal until the ignition is "ON" and engine is "OFF" (not running). After trouble codes have been noted, the ground wire should be removed from the test lead and the engine should be started. When the engine is started and there are no other codes except Code 12, the "CHECK ENGINE" light should go out after approximately 5.0 seconds, indicating that the ECM has not detected a malfunction. However, if the ECM detects a current malfunction, the "CHECK ENGINE" lamp will remain illuminated while the engine is running. A trouble code indicates a possible system malfunction. If a trouble code can be obtained, even if the "CHECK ENGINE" lamp is "OFF" when the engine is running, a "SYSTEM PERFORMANCE CHECK" should be performed and the indicated circuit should be inspected.

Use the appropriate diagnostic charts if trouble codes can be obtained with the "CHECK ENGINE" lamp "OFF." A System Performance Check and a thorough physical inspection of the circuit involved should be carried out if any of these codes are evident. Repair as necessary.

Removing battery voltage to ECM terminal "R" for a period of 10 seconds will clear all stored trouble codes. This usually can be accomplished by removing the ECM fuse, if equipped, from the fuse block. In some cases it may be easier to disconnect the negative battery terminal. However, doing so will result in deprogrammed ETR radios, electronic clocks and Trip Computers.

 

GM Bonneville/Eighty Eight/LeSabre 1986-1999

Crankshaft Position Sensor

  • OPERATION
  • REMOVAL & INSTALLATION

 

OPERATION

 

See Figures 1, 2 and 3

The dual Crankshaft Position (CKP) sensor is mounted to the front of the engine, attached to an aluminum bracket mounted to the left side of the engine at the timing chain cover. A 4-wire connector plugs into the sensor, connecting it to the ignition control module. The CKP sensor contains 2 Hall effect switches with 1 shared magnet mounted between them. The magnet and each Hall effect switch are separated by an air gap. A Hall effect switch reacts like a solid state switch, grounding a low current signal voltage when a magnetic field is present. When the magnetic field is shielded from the switch by a piece of steel placed in the air gap between the magnet and the switch, the voltage signal is not grounded. If the piece of steel (called an interrupter ring) is repeatedly moved in and out of the air gap, the signal voltage will appear to go ON, OFF, ON, OFF, ON, OFF. This ON/OFF signal is similar to the signal that a set of conventional breaker points in a distributor would generate, as the distributor shaft is turned and the points open and close.

 

FIG : Fig. 1: The Crankshaft Position (CKP) sensor is mounted to the front left side of the timing chain cover

image

In the case of the electronic ignition system, the piece of steel is 2 concentric interrupter rings mounted to the rear of the crankshaft balancer. Each interrupter ring has blades and windows that, in conjunction with the crankshaft revolution, either block the magnetic field or allow it to reach one of the Hall effect switches. The outer Hall effect switch is called the 18X crankshaft position sensor, because the outer interrupter ring has 18 evenly spaced the same width blades and windows. The 18X crankshaft position sensor produces 18 ON/OFF pulses per crankshaft revolution. The Hall effect switch closest to the crankshaft, the 3X crankshaft position sensor, is called this because the inside interrupter ring has 3 unevenly spaced, different width blades and windows. The 3X crankshaft position sensor produces 3 different length ON/OFF pulses per crankshaft revolution. When a 3X interrupter ring window is between the magnet and the inner switch, the magnetic field will cause the 3X Hall effect switch to ground the 3X signal voltage supplied from the ignition control module. The 18X interrupter ring and Hall effect switch reacts similarly.

FIG : Fig. 2: The crankshaft balancer has a series of interrupter rings

image

The ignition control module interprets the 18X and 3X ON/OFF signals as an indication of crankshaft position, and must have both signals to fire the correct ignition coil. The ignition control module determines crankshaft position for the correct ignition coil sequencing by counting how may 18X signal transitions occur, ON, OFF or OFF, ON during a 3X pulse.

FIG : Fig. 3: Because of their different blade and window configurations, the two Hall effect switches generate 18 and 3 CKP sensor pulses for each crankshaft revolution

image

REMOVAL & INSTALLATION

See Figures 6, 7 and 8

  1. Disconnect the negative battery cable.
  2. Remove the serpentine drive belt from the crankshaft pulley.
  3. Raise and safely support the vehicle.
  4. Remove the right front wheel and tire assembly and the right inner fender access cover/splash shield.
  5. Using a 28mm socket, remove the crankshaft harmonic balancer retaining bolt.
  6. Remove the crankshaft balancer, using a puller if necessary.
  7. For 1992-99 vehicles, remove the CKP sensor shield.
  8. FIG : Fig. 6: If so equipped, remove the crankshaft position sensor shield

    image

    1. Unplug the sensor electrical connector.
    2. For 1987-91 vehicles, perform the following:
      1. Remove the sensor and pedestal from the block face.
      2. Remove the sensor from the pedestal.

    3. For 1992-99 vehicles, remove the sensor from the block face.


    To install:

    1. For 1987-91 vehicles, perform the following:
    2. Loosely install the crankshaft sensor on the pedestal.
    3. Position the sensor, with the pedestal attached, on crankshaft sensor installation tool J 37089 or equivalent.
    4. Install the bolt to hold the pedestal to the block face, then tighten to 14-28 ft. lbs. (20-40 Nm).
    5. FIG : Fig. 7: Position the crankshaft sensor tool on the crankshaft

      image

    6. Click image to see an enlarged view

      Fig. Fig. 8: Insert the crankshaft sensor tool into the harmonic balancer

    7. Tighten the pedestal pinch bolt to 30-35 inch lbs. (3-4 Nm).
    8. Remove the special tool.
    9. Place the crankshaft sensor tool on the crankshaft balancer and turn. If any vane on the harmonic balancer touches the tool, replace the balancer.
      1. For 1992-99 vehicles, install the CKP sensor on the block.
        1. Install the retaining bolts and tighten to 14-28 ft. lbs. (20-40 Nm).
        2. Install the crankshaft position sensor shield.
        3. Attach the sensor electrical connector.

      2. Install the balancer on the crankshaft.
      3. Tighten the crankshaft bolt to 200-239 ft. lbs. (270-325 Nm) for 1987-91 vehicles. For 1992-99 vehicles, tighten to 110 ft. lbs. (150 Nm), plus an additional 7° rotation.
      4. Install the inner fender shield and the right tire and wheel assembly.
      5. Carefully lower the vehicle.
      6. Install the serpentine belt.
      7. Connect the negative battery cable.

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