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jeffrey590
jeffrey590, ASE Master Technician
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 2824
Experience:  ASE Master Technician , Saab Master Technician w/ 35 years Dealer Experience in Advanced Level Diag.
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My 2000 Saab 9-5 Aero 2.3L turbo has a loud ticking sound.

Customer Question

My 2000 Saab 9-5 Aero 2.3L turbo has a loud ticking sound. How can i fix it?
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Car
Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

hi and welcome. were is the ticking coming from? i.e. top,bottom of engine ,inside the car

Thanks

Brian

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hello. It's coming from the engine's valve cover.
Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

This is probably the hydraulic valve lifters they are starving for oil. The problem is sludging. the sump that sucks the oil from the pan is clogged. The only fix is to remove and clean the oil pan and replace the sump. If you have any further questions let me know.

Thanks

Brian

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Where is the sump located, and what does it look like?
Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

if you go to eeuroparts.com put in your vehicle and then go to "engine mechanical".This will bring up a diagram of engine it is #82 on the list of parts down the bottom of the picture near the oil pan.I tried uploading picture myself but didn't work.if you need further help let me know.

Thanks
Brian

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I will replace part #82, but i forgot to tell you the noise is coming from only one lifter. Do you think it is ok to change part #82?
Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

yes the rest will not be far behind.

Thanks

Brian

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I heard that some people drill larger holes on the oil pickup tube mesh so the tube doesn't clog as easily. What's your opinion on this procedure?

Also, will just cleaning instead of replacing the oil pickup tube work? Since the part is a special order and will take time to get at eeuroparts.com

Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

The holes are that small for a reason if something gets threw the mesh and gets into the engine then it could destroy or clog it. I don't recommend this. If eeuro parts cant get it the saab dealer may have it in stock I would check with them. You can clean it but if you miss something then you may be back were you started.For the price of the part it is not worth cleaning.

Thanks

Brian

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ok thanks, i'll let you know how it turns out or if i have any other questions.
Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

ok let me know.

Thanks

Brian

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I am having trouble removing the oil pan. I removed all visible bolts, but the pan won't come loose. the pan by the right front wheel feels loose, but the pan by the transmission still feels like a bolt is holding it.

Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

you need to surport the engine on top and drop the subframe.

Thanks

Brian

Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

the bolts go all the way around the pan there is a shield cover for the transmission .sorry this got omitted from my last post

Thanks

Brian

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Our transmission doesn't have a shield cover. The oil pan is complete.

Also, our engine was replaced with an engine that came from a manuel transmission. Do you have a picture of the oil pan? I think our oil pan might be different than the original.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Here is a picture of the oil pan by the transmission:

 

graphic

Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

the picture you sent is to close here is a picture of oil pan

graphic

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Yeah, our pan is different. Maybe these pictures are better :

 

graphic

 

 

graphic

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

This part of the pan feels stuck. In your diagram there is a transmission cover in its place.

 

graphic

 

graphic

Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

hi have a couple of 95's here 5spd and auto let me get them on the lift and compare maybe tomorrow before I can get back to you

Thanks

Brian

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ok, thanks
Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

I just got done looking at both cars and the pan is the same,this is a 4cyclinder correct? and you said it came out of another car what model?

Thanks

Brian

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Yes, it's a 4 cylinder turbo engine. It supposedly came out of another saab 9-5, not sure though.
Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

this could be a pan from an early 9000 but i am not sure .I will opt out maybe another expert can help. don not reply to this post.

Thanks

Brian

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
This pan is the correct one from what I can see in the pics...If you are sure all bolts have been removed, the you may have to shock it loose...I have seen many of these that are really hard to get loose...Make sure engine is supported and subframe is dropped sufficiently for clearance...Then get a rubber mallet and impact the pan as close to the top where it meets the engine all the way around...It should break loose...The only thing inside the pan is the pickup assembly and it shouldn't keep the pan from seperating...If you need further assistance please let me know...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I got the oil pan out. Two other bolts were hidden from view by the transmission. The mesh on the oil pickup tube isn't that clogged or dirty.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
The oil pickup tube does contain some small amounts of metal debris on it.
Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

I don't know if Jeff is still helping you but there is always some metal in in pan thats why they have a magnet. The pan is usually caked with grit but since you have had yours replaced it may not be.doesn't take much to reduce flow of oil through that strainer.just for your own info that oil pan is out of 95 5spd 2004 and up.

Thanks

Brian

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
When I order the pickup oil tube, should I order one for a 2004 Saab 9-5 or 2000 Saab? Do the model years make a difference?
Expert:  Brian replied 4 years ago.

tube all the the same till 2009.

Thanks

Brian

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
Make sure to replace the oring on the pickup tube w/ a new one...many people overlook this and you get air through the seal...Didn't mean to post over you...Thought you opted out...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I replaced the pickup tube and o-ring, started it, but the noise is still there.

The oil pan was thoroughly cleaned. I also put new oil and oil filter.

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
You will most likely need to replace the lifters that have failed due to oil starvation...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
How do I replace the lifters? Thanks.
Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
You will need to soak the new lifters in motor oil for at least 48 hours before replacement...Then Set engine on TDC....Remove valve cover...Remove Timing Chain Tensioner...Remove Camshafts...Replace lifter assemblies...Reassemble in reverse order...Vehicle will have ticking noise when first started until you take it out and drive the car...Then they will pump to correct adjustment...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

When the car started making noise, it was from one day to another. It wasn't a gradual change.

I also replaced the oil pickup tube and o-ring because Brian advised me to.

After I had started the car with the new pickup tube, I uncovered the valve cover and found very little oil. Is there any device the sends the oil to the lifters and cams that perhaps may not be working properly?

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
The oil is supplied through the pickup and goes through the oil pump...There is an oil pressure relief valve in the system and oil is pumped through oil channels in the block and head...Try changing the oil with a new Saab filter and the correct weight oil...Then put an oil pressure test guage on the engine and test actual pressure...If these tests prove OK,then I would tear down and test/change the lifters...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

How do I test the oil pressure? Do I need to buy a gauge?

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
buy or rent one...your choice...remove oil pressure switch and connect guage to get an accurate reading...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

where is the oil pressure switch located?

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
oil pressure switch is located on engine block below intake manifold...behind the starter motor...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

The oil pressure was 22psi at 1000rpm and 40psi at 2000rpm. The car was in nuetral at normal operating temperature while pressure was read.

When I had the oil pan off before, I think it was the rod bearing that made noise when I tried moving it side to side.

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
OK...Oil pressure is within specs...You definitely have a mechanical problem...replace the faulty lifters and go from there...side to side play is normal to a degree...You would need to measure bearing wear using Plastiguage on the bottom end...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Can lifters go bad in one day? The car sounded fine one day and the next day the engine was loud.

Also, how do I tell if a lifter is bad or good?

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
You remove the lifter and squeeze it between your fingers...If its rock hard its good...Any play or softness and it needs to be replaced...Odds are the car was starved for oil for a while and it finally began to make noise...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Where is the timing chain tensioner? Also, what does the timing chain tensioner look like and how do I remove it?
Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
It is on the left side of the cylinder head...You will need a 1 1/16" deep socket to remove it...If it is faulty you will have chain noise...not knocking or ticking noise...jeffrey590
jeffrey590, ASE Master Technician
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 2824
Experience: ASE Master Technician , Saab Master Technician w/ 35 years Dealer Experience in Advanced Level Diag.
jeffrey590 and 2 other Car Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I do not have the $350 to buy the lifters now, but I will hit the "accept answer" for helping me. Thank you for your help.

You do not have to answer my last question, but will anything happen to the car if I keep driving it with the ticking lifters?

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
Eventually they will fail completely and damage to the valve train will occur...Try to fix them ASAP ...Thanks...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I replaced all the lifters, but the car still makes the same noise.
Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.

How many were bad when you checked them?? Also how were the chain and rails when you removed the cams?...jeffrey590

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

All but one or two lifters were bad. The chain and rails looked ok.

Before on Sunday May 23, you said I had to drive the car after installing the new lifters for the noise to go away, how long should I do this for?

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
Only for a mile or so,if that...You just want to max the oil pressure to pump them up fully....Are you sure it isnt a bearing noise?...That would be lower in the engine...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I bought a new set of lifters, and drove the car for a while. The saab still makes noise. What can I do next?
Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
Sounds like bearing noise...Will have to drop pan and drop a couple of main caps and rod caps to check for damage...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I drove the car 425 miles today at 65-70mph. The noise is still the same. Do you think it may still be the bearings?

Anyways, tommorow I will drop the pan to check it.

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
Since I can't actually hear it, i have to go by the past chain of events...As long as you have done everything exactly as we have outlined up to this point, I would check the bearings next...I will be anxious to see what you find...Keep me posted and as always I am here to help whenever I can...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Once, I have taken off the oil pan, what do i do next?

Also, what kind of damage do i look for?

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
Remove main caps one by one...take one off...inspect for damage to bearing (scoring, pieces missing and wear to bronze/brass color base)...Reinstall and go to the next one...Also check the crankshaft for damage as well...Then repeat procedure 1 by 1 for the connecting rod bearings...look for same thing as far as wear...I'll be here when you need me...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

How do I order new bearings? Do I need to know bearing size?

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
You would order standard size providing crankshaft doesn't have to be machined..Then you would have to order oversized to make up for amount of journal that was cut ...You will use Plastigage during assembly to make sure clearances are within specification...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

The rod bearings look to be worn more on the outside of the "C-ring" than the middle. I will replace these.

I took off the valve cover and checked the lifters. They are not as hard as when i purchased them.

Before, I had also ordered another set of lifters, and they went soft after installation and starting the car, just like this second set.

What could be causing this? Could it be the rod bearings? Or is this normal?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

When ordering plastigage, is one strip enough?

Should I order .004-.009 , .001-.003 , .002-.006? what size?

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
Lifters should be hard...You may be starving for oil up top if they are soft...Make sure caps and bolts are installed properly with oil passages lined up...Check standard bearing clearances for rods and mains and order Plastigage accordingly...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
What oil passages need to be lined up? what do they look like? and where are they located?
Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
We discussed this previously I believe...In any case the cam caps have oil passages cut into the face of them (look at bearing face and see them)...One side opens to the bolt hole...This is the black bolt which is hollow and supplies oil to the cams and top end...They are installed closest to spark plug chamber when installed...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
What is the standard rod bearing clearance for this car?
Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
I do not have specs handy for the bearing clearances...You will need to check the shop manual for the spec you request...jeffrey590
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I changed the rod bearings. They were within specs according to the plastigage. The engine makes ticking noise. The cam followers were installed facing the black bolts. The black bolts were installed toward the spark plugs.

Anything else that could be causing the noise?

Expert:  jeffrey590 replied 4 years ago.
Make sure the cam caps line up with the oil feeds in the black bolts...otherwise the oil cant get through...jeffrey590

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jeffrey590
jeffrey590
Automotive Diagnostic Specialist
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ASE Master Technician , Saab Master Technician w/ 35 years Dealer Experience in Advanced Level Diag.